Hi, I did a show last night and i used a Audix f12 kick drum mic on the bass drum, here is what it was doing, I could turn the mic up but when the song stopped the mic would have a low freq, feedback that would get louder and louder and louder if i didnt turn it down, I had to keep my finger on the slider the whole night,. I had it compressed also with a alesis 3632 compressor. Now what i am wondering if i had it compressed too much , (I dont know the settings on that channel of the compressor right off hand but the gain reduction was kinda high). or is the drum mic fixing to go out on me. I had one of the same mics go out on me before and bought this one as a replacement for it. I was listening to the line via PFL and it was kinda distorted, I dont really think its the cable cause i dont use the same cable at any show. any one have any suggestions.
Thinking my drum mic is fixing to go bad.
- Thread starter Jimmy Hardin
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Re: Thinking my drum mic is fixing to go bad.
I don't think your mic is defective, your technique is.
Yes, the compressor can cause feedback if you rely on fairly heavy compression and then use the output gain knob to make up for the lowered average signal. The compressor is "turning down" the kick drum when the signal goes over the Threshold setting and you apply the gain. When the compressor releases, it is no longer "turning down" the kick, but the GAIN is still there.
Since this seems to be a first time occurrence for you, I'd also wager a guess that the kick drum was tuned to a frequency that caused it to vibrate "sympathetically" and that also contributed to the feedback.
Back down the compressor's level reduction (raise the threshold or lower the ratio) and then reduce the amount of output gain used. And you would probably benefit more from a gate on the kick than a compressor.
The impact of a kick drum is a <40ms event. What are you hoping to accomplish with the compressor?
I don't think your mic is defective, your technique is.
Yes, the compressor can cause feedback if you rely on fairly heavy compression and then use the output gain knob to make up for the lowered average signal. The compressor is "turning down" the kick drum when the signal goes over the Threshold setting and you apply the gain. When the compressor releases, it is no longer "turning down" the kick, but the GAIN is still there.
Since this seems to be a first time occurrence for you, I'd also wager a guess that the kick drum was tuned to a frequency that caused it to vibrate "sympathetically" and that also contributed to the feedback.
Back down the compressor's level reduction (raise the threshold or lower the ratio) and then reduce the amount of output gain used. And you would probably benefit more from a gate on the kick than a compressor.
The impact of a kick drum is a <40ms event. What are you hoping to accomplish with the compressor?
Re: Thinking my drum mic is fixing to go bad.
How much compression?, to much compression and cranking the fader up will lead to feadback. Gates will help at this point
How much compression?, to much compression and cranking the fader up will lead to feadback. Gates will help at this point
Re: Thinking my drum mic is fixing to go bad.
Thirding the suggestion that it's a feedback problem. Easy to way to find out, what does the mic do when it's Not micing up a kick drum, and not compressed?
Thirding the suggestion that it's a feedback problem. Easy to way to find out, what does the mic do when it's Not micing up a kick drum, and not compressed?
Re: Thinking my drum mic is fixing to go bad.
Thanks, That makes sense completely, Cause every time the song would stop the compressor kicks off, and cause the feedback. I gotchya. I use it for keeping the bass drum steady , for example if someone gets up there with a heavy foot and then someone gets on the kick with a light foot and doesn't kick it very hard then it keeps me from having to keep my hand on the fader all night with them and also i use it to keep it from clipping my board.
Thanks, That makes sense completely, Cause every time the song would stop the compressor kicks off, and cause the feedback. I gotchya. I use it for keeping the bass drum steady , for example if someone gets up there with a heavy foot and then someone gets on the kick with a light foot and doesn't kick it very hard then it keeps me from having to keep my hand on the fader all night with them and also i use it to keep it from clipping my board.
Re: Thinking my drum mic is fixing to go bad.
I dont know what my compression settings were right off the top of my head but the gain reduction I remember looking at was pretty high.
I dont know what my compression settings were right off the top of my head but the gain reduction I remember looking at was pretty high.
Re: Thinking my drum mic is fixing to go bad.
oh i dont know i dont think i have ever used it on anything else but the kick.
oh i dont know i dont think i have ever used it on anything else but the kick.
Re: Thinking my drum mic is fixing to go bad.
The threshold control is your friend here. Check your gain reduction meter just like any other level meter and aim for a gain reduction of 6dB (or according to taste) in average. 6dB is a good starting point that strikes a nice balance between compression and transparency for controlling uneven levels.
If there is a new player, trim the threshold adapting to the 'correct' gain reduction. Remember, less is more...
What do you mean by "clipping my board"?
The compressor isn't a set-once-and-forget type of device. This is very true in you scenario.
The threshold control is your friend here. Check your gain reduction meter just like any other level meter and aim for a gain reduction of 6dB (or according to taste) in average. 6dB is a good starting point that strikes a nice balance between compression and transparency for controlling uneven levels.
If there is a new player, trim the threshold adapting to the 'correct' gain reduction. Remember, less is more...
What do you mean by "clipping my board"?
Re: Thinking my drum mic is fixing to go bad.
You don't get bored cos you've set and forgot and have nothing to do?
You don't get bored cos you've set and forgot and have nothing to do?
Re: Thinking my drum mic is fixing to go bad.
What i mean is , that sometimes the kick signal is too hot and I just figured that i could take some of the dynamics out of the mic and it would stop so i could get more gain on the board. I might have the wrong intentions with that thought. Ok thanks i will start with the 6DB , ok , what would be a great starting point setting on the Kick drum on the rest of the compressor? (Ratio, Attack and so on.)
What i mean is , that sometimes the kick signal is too hot and I just figured that i could take some of the dynamics out of the mic and it would stop so i could get more gain on the board. I might have the wrong intentions with that thought. Ok thanks i will start with the 6DB , ok , what would be a great starting point setting on the Kick drum on the rest of the compressor? (Ratio, Attack and so on.)
Re: Thinking my drum mic is fixing to go bad.
LOL no i don't, It's never a dull moment at the board. lol
LOL no i don't, It's never a dull moment at the board. lol
Re: Thinking my drum mic is fixing to go bad.
Agreed. The gate in the case of a kick drum will usually stop feedback issues as well though remedying the issue at the source is better.
Agreed. The gate in the case of a kick drum will usually stop feedback issues as well though remedying the issue at the source is better.
Re: Thinking my drum mic is fixing to go bad.
I would definitely check into the feedback situation, too much compression and gain can definitely cause this.
HOWEVER, I had a very similar problem that I could not figure out for the life of me with a band I work for a couple times out of the month. I was on a Mackie DL1608 so I could turn comps/gates on or off and try different settings quickly. I knew that we had previously had problems with his kick mic where tightening down some screws fixed it for the night, but that was cutting in and out. In between sets I just switched the microphone out and all of my problems went away. We ended up putting a tom mic in the kick and while not ideal it worked out just fine and no more low end feedback. Now I bring my own kick mic for this band.
I dont know EXACTLY the problem but I do know that the mic had problems in the past, and when I switched it the problem went away.
I would definitely check into the feedback situation, too much compression and gain can definitely cause this.
HOWEVER, I had a very similar problem that I could not figure out for the life of me with a band I work for a couple times out of the month. I was on a Mackie DL1608 so I could turn comps/gates on or off and try different settings quickly. I knew that we had previously had problems with his kick mic where tightening down some screws fixed it for the night, but that was cutting in and out. In between sets I just switched the microphone out and all of my problems went away. We ended up putting a tom mic in the kick and while not ideal it worked out just fine and no more low end feedback. Now I bring my own kick mic for this band.
I dont know EXACTLY the problem but I do know that the mic had problems in the past, and when I switched it the problem went away.
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Re: Thinking my drum mic is fixing to go bad.
That was my first initial thought was the mic or cable , but seeings how i never use just one certain cable for it , i guess that rules that out, the reason i say that is because the line when i PFL'ed it was kind of distorted , so thats what brought me to the bad mic idea.
That was my first initial thought was the mic or cable , but seeings how i never use just one certain cable for it , i guess that rules that out, the reason i say that is because the line when i PFL'ed it was kind of distorted , so thats what brought me to the bad mic idea.
Re: Thinking my drum mic is fixing to go bad.
Tim, My compressor has a Expander/Gate on it , couldn't i just use that instead getting a new piece of gear?
Tim, My compressor has a Expander/Gate on it , couldn't i just use that instead getting a new piece of gear?
Re: Thinking my drum mic is fixing to go bad.
Ok guys , here is a photo That i took as i loaded out today , the first one shows my Threshold and the output gain on my compressor that i used on the Kick drum. the second one shows the attack, and release and so on. tell me what i was doing wrong. and if you feel obliged tell me where you would set it for a good starting point , take into consideration that this is the first year that i have worked one so be gentle, lol naw just kidding , tell me what you think.
Ok guys , here is a photo That i took as i loaded out today , the first one shows my Threshold and the output gain on my compressor that i used on the Kick drum. the second one shows the attack, and release and so on. tell me what i was doing wrong. and if you feel obliged tell me where you would set it for a good starting point , take into consideration that this is the first year that i have worked one so be gentle, lol naw just kidding , tell me what you think.
It looks like you are adding 10dB of makeup gain. That may be the problem. With what looks like only a 2/1 ratio, I would back down the makeup as it is unlikely you are compressing 10dB. The threshold is pretty high too.
It is hard to read the values so if I got em wrong, maybe you could say what they are.
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Re: Thinking my drum mic is fixing to go bad.
I didnt see that on the values thanks for bringing that to my attention. I can't see it either , but it looks to me to be slightly higher than 2:1, but it could be 2:1
I didnt see that on the values thanks for bringing that to my attention. I can't see it either , but it looks to me to be slightly higher than 2:1, but it could be 2:1
Re: Thinking my drum mic is fixing to go bad.
Here's how I'd do it.
Turn up the limiter so it isnt engaged on peaks. Start with ratio 1:10 (or whatever your maximum is), makeup 0dB, attack at minimum time and release at maximum time, threshold so it triggers consistently.
Have the kick to thump once per second. Raise the attack until you get a nice klick. Now back off the release time until you hear the compressor release before one hit fades out and then raise the release a notch.
Adjust threshold approx 6-12dB under engaging trigg level depending on how (in)consitent the drummer is. Set the ratio around 1:5 and adjust gain reduction to approx 6dB. You need to tweak this to taste but is a good starting point. Set the makeup so that your output level is comfortable.
Now you can adjust the limiter so it only gets the highest of the highest peaks. Otherwise it will kill the attack of the drum.
While gates are great analog gates have a tendency to soften the attack and digital gates can produce a clicking sound. Expanders are so much better but may still kill of some attack.
When a new drummer enters you should only need to readjust the threshold.
I just checked the pictures. It seems like the limiter is working overtime as well since the attack looks to be around 30mS...
Here's how I'd do it.
Turn up the limiter so it isnt engaged on peaks. Start with ratio 1:10 (or whatever your maximum is), makeup 0dB, attack at minimum time and release at maximum time, threshold so it triggers consistently.
Have the kick to thump once per second. Raise the attack until you get a nice klick. Now back off the release time until you hear the compressor release before one hit fades out and then raise the release a notch.
Adjust threshold approx 6-12dB under engaging trigg level depending on how (in)consitent the drummer is. Set the ratio around 1:5 and adjust gain reduction to approx 6dB. You need to tweak this to taste but is a good starting point. Set the makeup so that your output level is comfortable.
Now you can adjust the limiter so it only gets the highest of the highest peaks. Otherwise it will kill the attack of the drum.
While gates are great analog gates have a tendency to soften the attack and digital gates can produce a clicking sound. Expanders are so much better but may still kill of some attack.
When a new drummer enters you should only need to readjust the threshold.
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Re: Thinking my drum mic is fixing to go bad.
Ok , thanks so much robert , I will try that. Thanks for the info.
Ok , thanks so much robert , I will try that. Thanks for the info.