Topics suggestions for advanced system tech and tuning class

Phil Graham

Honorary PhD
Mar 10, 2011
651
1
18
Atlanta, GA
Hey everyone,

Bennett and I have been kicking around putting together an advanced system tuning class sometime in the dead of winter (early 2012) when work is typically slower for would-be attendees. I should stress that there is nothing written in stone at this point, but we'd like to make it happen.

The class would most likely be in Atlanta at a large multi-auditorium facility that has both line array and point source installs. Our target audience is people who routinely use measurement software to commission portable or installation loudspeaker systems. Good candidates include: A1s, system techs, system designers, technical leads/directors, installation houses, acousticians, and students in related subjects. We'll cap the class at 20(ish) attendees.

The class would be prediction and measurement platform agnostic to the greatest extent possible, though we would primarily measure and display data with Smaart 7. The level of the class would start at a point similar to the last day of a three day Smaart class. We would assume that all attendees are fluent in the operation of their measurement system of choice, but you won't necessarily have to be confident in understanding what the data means. In fact, we hope attendees would be able to leave some of their pre-conceived notions at coat check.

The class would mix classroom and measurement in a back and forth manner. We would have an overview day, then a day specifically on point sources, and finally a third day specifically on line sources. Attendees could purchase either two or three days, depending on their interest in line source systems on day three.

Bennett and I both have our own pet topics, but we realize that we are probably myopic on topics relevant to you, your work, your room, your installs, your company, or your roi. We are looking for your input into topics that interest you. Tell us what you need covered to get value from the class!

P.S. Our goal is not to compete or replace any of the existing great training resources available for audio professionals. The class would be a meaningful extension to the Rational Acoustics three day classes, Renkus' training for Systune, Meyer Sound's classes, or SynAudCon's training, and would compliment more mix-centric training like Robert Scoville's work, Own the Mix.com, Church Sound Check, or Gurus of tech (Let me know if I'm missing any!). Bob McCarthy's classes are probably the closest thing out there, but I feel confident we approach things from a different viewpoint than Bob. This is a small industry, and we want the tide to raise all ships in the harbor.

P.P.S. Beyond the science/physics of system tech work, there exists a good amount of room for creative and soft topics that don't have clear "best practices," so topic suggestions don't necessarily need to be purely "data dump" oriented.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Re: Topics suggestions for advanced system tech and tuning class

Phil,

I think it is a great idea. I have spent many years as a "rule of thumb" tech, but last December committed myself to using SMAART. Now, I hate it when it is not available for a show.

As a traveling tech my interests would be:

1. Techniques for checking coverage, especially the interaction of mains and fills, as well as techniques for supplementing existing systems.
2. Strategies for combining the use of the various modeling softwares with measurement systems to follow through from system design to implementation (i.e. does the system do what you predicted it to do?)

Thanks for the effort,

Jay
 
Re: Topics suggestions for advanced system tech and tuning class

The one thing that I don't get to use is prediction software such as EASE. I have used Meyer's version, but as you know, it's limited to my Ultra Series Rig. The majority of the work should be done in the shop- so along those lines... angles... laser tools...

I didn't get anything out of the Smaart Practicum (third) Day because of the venue that we were located in for the session.
 
Re: Topics suggestions for advanced system tech and tuning class

Phil,

I think it is a great idea. I have spent many years as a "rule of thumb" tech, but last December committed myself to using SMAART. Now, I hate it when it is not available for a show.

As a traveling tech my interests would be:

1. Techniques for checking coverage, especially the interaction of mains and fills, as well as techniques for supplementing existing systems.
2. Strategies for combining the use of the various modeling softwares with measurement systems to follow through from system design to implementation (i.e. does the system do what you predicted it to do?)

Thanks for the effort,

Jay

Jay, we would get to both of those, and I'd also like to include "does the prediction software represent what the array does?"

The more specific the pain points, the better we can cull the broad range of topics.
 
Last edited:
Re: Topics suggestions for advanced system tech and tuning class

The one thing that I don't get to use is prediction software such as EASE. I have used Meyer's version, but as you know, it's limited to my Ultra Series Rig. The majority of the work should be done in the shop- so along those lines... angles... laser tools...

I didn't get anything out of the Smaart Practicum (third) Day because of the venue that we were located in for the session.

Kip,

Anything we do will be a short drive for you :)

Clearly we would discuss prediction software, but we'd also make that as platform agnostic as possible. I'd like to give principles/limitations/suggestions that can be applied to any prediction software.
 
Re: Topics suggestions for advanced system tech and tuning class

Having done a number of day 3 Smaart classes, my advice to you is spend plenty of time on helping everyone understand the phase trace. Demonstrate it's use for crossover alignment (subs to mains), as well as it's use in multi speaker alignment. A powerful tool in the system optimization toolbox. I physically misalign two boxes to show the concepts, strengths, and weaknesses of the different techniques. If you have time, play around with some all pass filters.
 
Re: Topics suggestions for advanced system tech and tuning class

Having done a number of day 3 Smaart classes, my advice to you is spend plenty of time on helping everyone understand the phase trace. Demonstrate it's use for crossover alignment (subs to mains), as well as it's use in multi speaker alignment. A powerful tool in the system optimization toolbox. I physically misalign two boxes to show the concepts, strengths, and weaknesses of the different techniques. If you have time, play around with some all pass filters.

Arthur,

Good to hear from you! So much of what we desire to cover requires understanding, and intuition, about the phase trace that it would be discussed at length on the orientation day. Experienced techs can have subtle misunderstandings regarding the phase trace mixed in with an otherwise solid grasp of the core details. We would endeavor to insure everyone is on the same page.
 
Re: Topics suggestions for advanced system tech and tuning class

Hopefully the facility that Phil has approached will be available, since it is absolutely ideal for the needs of this course and will allow us to really stage many sorts of system setups.

We plan on spending a lot of time on basics, as well as going into how loudspeaker design affects array behavior and performance. After all, the loudspeaker is the building block for everything else we do.

Expect very in depth coverage of sub arrays, fills, delays, trap arrays, and finally information on building high performance line arrays that is not widely available. The importance of the phase trace will be emphasized and the importance of the magnitude trace minimized. Building systems that operate well over wide areas and bandwidths will be a prime point.

I've been wanting to work with Phil on something like this for a long time. He and I both agree on the meat and potatoes, but have enough different perspectives on the seasoning that there should be take aways for anyone at any level of the industry. There will be ample Q&A time, and the class will be very practical application focused. At the end of the day, we want you to have learned how to do something, or do something you're already doing better, the very next day.
 
Re: Topics suggestions for advanced system tech and tuning class

I'm definitely in, schedule permitting. "The Dead of Winter" is a busy time for me, with Ballet and other Christmas shows going on. And I'm always booked New Years weekend. The first week or two of January should be do able. After that, it's a mad dash until mid May before I get any time off.

I guess the main thing that I want, is getting more practical understanding about system tuning. After my three day Smaart training, I was kind of left with a lot of knowledge, but not much experience to put it into practice. And since I have four installed systems, that don't normally change there's not a lot that I can do to measure different approaches.

I would also like to see some kind of "down and dirty" approach. What do you do when you only have 30 minutes to tune a system before sound check starts?
 
Re: Topics suggestions for advanced system tech and tuning class

I've been wanting to work with Phil on something like this for a long time. He and I both agree on the meat and potatoes, but have enough different perspectives on the seasoning that there should be take aways for anyone at any level of the industry. There will be ample Q&A time, and the class will be very practical application focused.

Hopefully some of the interplay of how Bennett and I view the "seasoning" differently, as well as the participants' input, will provide some of the best added value, and increase the mental flexibility of how people attack problems. I desire (and expect) the class participants to interact with us, participate in taking measurements, and take a stab at answering impromptu questions posed to them. For the pace of instruction, we understandably need attendees to be comfortable with the interface of their measurement platform of choice, but any other question or curiosity they want to ask is always fair game.

We plan on spending a lot of time on basics, as well as going into how loudspeaker design affects array behavior and performance. After all, the loudspeaker is the building block for everything else we do.

This is an important point. Measurement does not function in isolation of the speaker(s) being measured, and the more you understand how speakers function, the more you will understand the measurement traces on your screen.

The importance of the phase trace will be emphasized and the importance of the magnitude trace minimized.

This statement is a great example of how Bennett and I think about the world of audio differently. Bennett moves directly to the end importance of the phase trace, and I think more about how the magnitude and phase are tied together, and how the magnitude response must be well behaved to produce good phase response.

In the instructional setting, attendees can choose to think about my more nuanced perspective, or they can latch on to Bennett's bottom-line principle. We realize some people want to learn "why" and some people want to learn "how." We would include a mix of both.

Building systems that operate well over wide areas and bandwidths will be a prime point.

Often-times there are a number of ways to approach improving the on-screen behavior of a measurement in Smaart/Systune/Sim3/Arta/etc. Not all of these methods will result in uniform improvement at every seat, and sometimes will worsen the sound system at other points in the room. We want to help attendees pick the most appropriate technique to solve problems for the greatest fraction of the coverage area.

At the end of the day, we want you to have learned how to do something, or do something you're already doing better, the very next day.

Precisely.
 
Last edited:
Re: Topics suggestions for advanced system tech and tuning class

"Expect very in depth coverage of sub arrays, fills, delays, trap arrays, and finally information on building high performance line arrays that is not widely available."

How long is all of that going to take ? Seems like "in depth" sub arrays could be 3 days long on its own.
 
Re: Topics suggestions for advanced system tech and tuning class

"We would have an overview day, then a day specifically on point sources, and finally a third day specifically on line sources. Attendees could purchase either two or three days, depending on their interest in line source systems on day three."

..... and then fills and sub arrays and tying all together..... very ambitious, although I think the option to avoid line source is a little weird.
 
Re: Topics suggestions for advanced system tech and tuning class

I am in, schedule pending.By in depth, I understood a case study model, not a how to class. Hopefully, the examples and discussion will help each participant develop a framework for applying the info to their own situation.
 
Re: Topics suggestions for advanced system tech and tuning class

A class I have been suggesting (multiple times) to Pat Brown (and he just ignores me-I wonder why?????) is basically a step by step alignment class.

The system would include a center cluster with down fill-side fills (maybe or not down fills), blacony delays-underbalcony delays and so forth.

Then wipe the DSP and start doing an alignment. During the process there are all sorts of "decisions" that have to be made-and that would be topics of discussion.

Actually measure how different loudspeakers affect areas that they are not directly providing coverage in.

I know how I approach rooms like this, but that is a method that I have developed on my own over the last 10yrs or so.

How do others do it. What govens when an adjustment fixes a problem in one area, but makes another area worse.

And then lots of listening tests. Sometimes you change things because of what you hear-or localize to-not always what the measurement platform says.

That's what I would like to see.
 
Re: Topics suggestions for advanced system tech and tuning class

Jay,

Bennett stated that at the end of the day attendees should have learned how to do something and that he and Phil would spend a great deal of time on the basics.

I like Ivan's idea. It would be difficult ,I think, because of the innumerable variables that might move the class off of it's intended keynotes, but worth it if it can be done with enough organization.
 
Last edited:
Re: Topics suggestions for advanced system tech and tuning class

"We would have an overview day, then a day specifically on point sources, and finally a third day specifically on line sources. Attendees could purchase either two or three days, depending on their interest in line source systems on day three."

..... and then fills and sub arrays and tying all together..... very ambitious, although I think the option to avoid line source is a little weird.

Brandon,

Many people, especially in the installation world, have little use for a day's class on line arrays, so why make them pay for it? If they enjoy their first two days and want to pay for the third day, they can make that decision on site.
 
Re: Topics suggestions for advanced system tech and tuning class

I am in, schedule pending.By in depth, I understood a case study model, not a how to class. Hopefully, the examples and discussion will help each participant develop a framework for applying the info to their own situation.

Jay,

Even among frequent users of measurement software I have noticed a diversity of mis-conceptions and/or misapplications, so some "how to" is needed to insure that everyone is on the page physics dictates.

My general structuring of topics generally follows this framework:
1. General physical principle
2. Useful analogy
3. Visual representation
4. Simulated measurement of the simplest use case
5. Check for understanding
6. Ramifications for measurement and processing
7. Real world application with messy measurements

---

On day two, after we have a morning presentation address general equipment, measurement tasks, and methodologies, we are going to set the class loose taking measurements, with their own measurement platforms, on the different use cases in locations throughout the facility. Everyone spends a set of time taking traces for their specific use case, and then we will round table and discuss their measurements.

You might choose to measure a SOS rig that we have set up, or measure a delay speaker in one room, or measure a center cluster in another room, etc. Pick the use case you have the most interest in. We will give you a list of measurements to take, and some guidelines on how to take those measurements, but you'll be responsible for them. Bennett and I will supervise and answer questions, but the measurement equipment, and ultimately saved traces, will be the attendees.

With multiple measurements happening in parallel, we can divide the work load and cover a lot of ground and allow desiring participants to have hands on practice. Spend 45min taking traces, and then an hour in post-mortem discussion of everyone's traces, then 45min applying solutions, and 30min listening to the end results. Attendees would see real data, and everyone can learn from the good, bad, and ugly of the classes collective measurements. A morning and afternoon session of this type covers many use cases. The evening hours will then fill in any questions, address any use cases people are confused on, and make sure everyone understands our more advanced suggestions.

---

Day 3 would be spent in the "big room" on site. It has a fairly complex multi-zone pa system with line arrays, downfills, delay lines, lots of subwoofers, etc. The morning would be split between talking about prediction software, and taking measurements, and the afternoon would step through each aspect of the system design, acoustic influences, etc. At the end of the day I would like to be able to compare the existing processing setup with what the class works through, and let the class discuss their take aways from that.

---

Hopefully this helps clarify what we would like to do, and why we are stressing that attendees need to be familiar with their measurement software, as they would be taking a number of measurements.
 
Last edited:
Re: Topics suggestions for advanced system tech and tuning class

A class I have been suggesting (multiple times) to Pat Brown (and he just ignores me-I wonder why?????) is basically a step by step alignment class.

The system would include a center cluster with down fill-side fills (maybe or not down fills), blacony delays-underbalcony delays and so forth.

Then wipe the DSP and start doing an alignment. During the process there are all sorts of "decisions" that have to be made-and that would be topics of discussion.

Actually measure how different loudspeakers affect areas that they are not directly providing coverage in.

I know how I approach rooms like this, but that is a method that I have developed on my own over the last 10yrs or so.

How do others do it. What govens when an adjustment fixes a problem in one area, but makes another area worse.

And then lots of listening tests. Sometimes you change things because of what you hear-or localize to-not always what the measurement platform says.

That's what I would like to see.

Ivan,

We would be as close to this as possible on day two, and virtually on top of it for day three.
 
Last edited:
Re: Topics suggestions for advanced system tech and tuning class

Phil,

I think we are on the same page for how you want to present it.

My reference to "how to" was my shorthand for a step by step do this do that in the right order and you are done (i.e. static flowchart); whereas case study (which from the education world is a perfect description of what you are setting up) describes more of a identify a problem, make a prediction, design a measurement, interpret a measurement, implement a solution framework. In my mind, a technician operates under the first set of thought processes, while an engineer operates under the second.

I just kept getting the feeling that Brandon was picturing more of the first and I was picturing more of the second.

I think this can be chalked up to differences in background. I am not a full time sound tech, I am currently a full time educator, and have been a full time scientist in the past; therefore, my picture of professional development and education has been formed by those fields. The big problem I have seen with step by step training is that if the students aren't forced to think about applying the knowledge to new situations during the class, they do not access that knowledge when faced with new situations. Other than SMAART training, I have not participated in any formal audio related training classes. I consider myself a technician because I perform many basic tasks by rule of thumb. I think a deeper understanding of system design and implementation is a big step towards engineering.

By the way, I am not sure if you ever studied education in any formal way, or if you put together your framework from experience of what works when teaching; but if I were to translate your framework into modern education theory, it is very solid.

However the class is described, I am excited by the opportunity.