Underneath hat mic placement

[Kirby Yarbrough]

I'm interested in learning more about techniques for hat mic placement from underneath, the idea being to save on stage footprint by using a clamp on a snare mic stand or the hat stand itself. With a closed or partially open hat, the sound wouldn't be that different than with placing the mic above, but what about when the hat is completely open and the top cymbal played? If this is a workable strategy, what clamps have you found to be useful -- I know Atlas sells a clamp-on swivel adaptor that's reasonable, are there others?

 

[Jake Scudder]

Re: Underneath hat mic placement

I'm interested in learning more about techniques for hat mic placement from underneath, the idea being to save on stage footprint by using a clamp on a snare mic stand or the hat stand itself. With a closed or partially open hat, the sound wouldn't be that different than with placing the mic above, but what about when the hat is completely open and the top cymbal played? If this is a workable strategy, what clamps have you found to be useful -- I know Atlas sells a clamp-on swivel adaptor that's reasonable, are there others?

You should be able to find real estate. If I had to give up the stick attack from the hi hat mic I think I would just scrap the mic altogether and use the bleed from the other mics. Also, the bottom hat is often thicker than the top and the sound will be darker. There is no harm in trying it out, though. If it sounds good and helps you out, go for it!

I'm using a K&M 240/5 clamped to another stand to get to the hi hats. I have 14 mics on this kit and not a single traditional mic stand.

 

[Silas Pradetto]

Re: Underneath hat mic placement

I'm not a fan of micing the hat from underneath. When I've tried it, all the attack and sizzle was gone, and EQ couldn't quite get me to where I wanted to be. So I resumed putting the mic on top, aimed at where the stick hits, trying to keep the snare in the null. I use a short boom stand so it's barely noticeable.

 

[Jeff Babcock]

Re: Underneath hat mic placement

I'm not a fan of micing the hat from underneath. When I've tried it, all the attack and sizzle was gone, and EQ couldn't quite get me to where I wanted to be. So I resumed putting the mic on top, aimed at where the stick hits, trying to keep the snare in the null. I use a short boom stand so it's barely noticeable.

+1

In some circumstances you could get away with it, but I have personally found the results to be underwhelming. YMMV

 

[Rob Spence]

Re: Underneath hat mic placement

I use an LP Claw usually attached to the crash cymbal stand. With my mics I use an NT5 with a right angle cable so it hardly shows.

 

[Evan Kirkendall]

Re: Underneath hat mic placement

I started undermicing the hat(all cymbals for that matter) about a year and a half ago. I had to play with placement, but I still am able to get a very good tone from under the cymbals. You'll lose some of the stick attack, but I still get plenty of sizzle and definition. It just looks so much cleaner too. I use LP claws for all of my mics. The hat mic is an SM81, pointed right up at the edge of the hat, about 5" below it.

Here's a(crappy) shot of my mic setup:

Evan

 

[John O'Brien]

Re: Underneath hat mic placement

Muse is a great example of people using mic'ing underneath for cymbals. Here's a shot that Dave Rat took of their drummer rocking out back in October. The hat isn't under mic'ed, but the others are, and I wouldn't be surprised if it has been before.

I really think that stuff like this is so hard to fully think about on a forum. There are SO many variables to take in to account in finding that tone you want from mic placement. Size of sticks, type of drums, player, mic choice, style of music, environment.... I hope you are able to somehow do a shootout and take as many observations as you can about what you have available. If you like it underneath, then boom. Do it. I hope you find that perfect sound for you

Personally, if you move your mic around and find that golden flame of sound, then by all means do whatever you have to do to get that mic there. I've had to utilize wads of gaff in some situations to make that work. Ideal? No. Was everyone happy, including myself? Yes.

That's what I love about what we do, we get to experiment and find the best possible ways to achieve results. We're conduits of sound coming from a band that wants their sound translated to the audience. I'll do whatever it takes to get that to them.

 

[Stuart Pendleton]

Re: Underneath hat mic placement

I have been mic'ing like Evan for several years and get good results with an SM81. If it was jazz with lots of quiet work, I wouldn't do it but for rock it has not been that much of an issue.

 

[bruce reiter]

Re: Underneath hat mic placement

I'm interested in learning more about techniques for hat mic placement from underneath, the idea being to save on stage footprint by using a clamp on a snare mic stand or the hat stand itself. With a closed or partially open hat, the sound wouldn't be that different than with placing the mic above, but what about when the hat is completely open and the top cymbal played? If this is a workable strategy, what clamps have you found to be useful -- I know Atlas sells a clamp-on swivel adaptor that's reasonable, are there others?

sound wise i prefer the tone i get mic'ing on top of the high hat. all of the other brass i mic from underneath. i use beta 98 mics under each cymbal, some are paired up so 2 cymbals go to 1 mic ... that all depends on cymbal distance. i use ksm 32's on the chinas with lp claws...

as always the best way to know is to try a few different methods and see what is best for your situation.
i had the hat mic under for a few shows to listen but ended up putting it back on top on the last tour.

the thing i miss most if it is not on top is the attack and definition of each hit especially with closed hats.

 

[Lee Dickinson]

Re: Underneath hat mic placement

Out of curiosity, are you guys using clamps and claws in festival / multi-band situations, or only when you're micing up one kit for the night? I like the clean look and increased stage real estate, but it seems it would be more time consuming. Though, keeping the stage clear of 4 or 5 extra mic stands might be worth it in terms of time spent navigating around the stands with drum kit.

 

[Jake Scudder]

Re: Underneath hat mic placement

Out of curiosity, are you guys using clamps and claws in festival / multi-band situations, or only when you're micing up one kit for the night? I like the clean look and increased stage real estate, but it seems it would be more time consuming. Though, keeping the stage clear of 4 or 5 extra mic stands might be worth it in terms of time spent navigating around the stands with drum kit.

My situation is a little different in that once the kit is set up it doesn't go anywhere for at least a week. My use of clamps and claws isn't so much about a look (the drummer is either in the orchestra pit or remoted to a trap room) as it is real estate and ease of setup. We construct a full Clearsonics hut around the kit and it has to be tight to the rather large kit in order to fit. Stands and traditional boom arms would just get in the way.

 

[Kip Conner]

Re: Underneath hat mic placement

I've been under miking high hats for well over 10 years with great results. I'm using a AKG C1000 and it's almost in instant hi-hat sound. The lack of low end in the mic really helps with the proximity of the kick drum and lower freaks of the snare. I started doing it based on footprint and having to carry less stands to the gig. With the addition of the Audix cab grabber I only carry 6 Atlas MS20 stands (4 vocals & 2 Overheads). Mic stands and Guitar stands take up so much real estate!!!