Am I correct that VCA or DCA are control groups whereas POP groups offer no control but simply bring all assigned channels to the surface for individual tweaking?
Thanks.
Thanks.
VCA vs POP
- Thread starter Dick Rees
- Start date
Re: VCA vs POP
Yes sir, Basically. Here is a quote from Midas website.
"If you think of the VCA faders as if they were each containers for all the channels they control then finding channels becomes a natural and easy task. This method is further expanded through the provision of user customised POP (POPulation) groups each of which can contain any combination of channels that you want to accesses instantly at the press of a switch. Rather like a VCA without a fader."
Yes sir, Basically. Here is a quote from Midas website.
"If you think of the VCA faders as if they were each containers for all the channels they control then finding channels becomes a natural and easy task. This method is further expanded through the provision of user customised POP (POPulation) groups each of which can contain any combination of channels that you want to accesses instantly at the press of a switch. Rather like a VCA without a fader."
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Re: VCA vs POP
Thanks, Evan.
As I contemplate the new digital offerings hitting the market, I find it a bit of a challenge in keeping up. I'm more of a hands-on learner and simply reading about things is sometimes confusing to me. It's not a function of old age. I've always been that way......
Thanks, Evan.
As I contemplate the new digital offerings hitting the market, I find it a bit of a challenge in keeping up. I'm more of a hands-on learner and simply reading about things is sometimes confusing to me. It's not a function of old age. I've always been that way......
Re: VCA vs POP
I have really enjoyed POP groups on the Midas Pro2 and Pr06 the few times I have used them. I usually thrown my money channels in them. Vocals in one and color code it for example. Its an easy way to get a specific variety of channels up top without flipping through layers. You could have any combination you want in each POP group.
I fully agree, Learning hands on is the only way. Reading can help spur it along but until Ive done it with my hands I dont fully know it.
I have really enjoyed POP groups on the Midas Pro2 and Pr06 the few times I have used them. I usually thrown my money channels in them. Vocals in one and color code it for example. Its an easy way to get a specific variety of channels up top without flipping through layers. You could have any combination you want in each POP group.
I fully agree, Learning hands on is the only way. Reading can help spur it along but until Ive done it with my hands I dont fully know it.
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Re: VCA vs POP
I agree with the hands on....but I am a Network Admin by day. Downloading the software to these consoles and going through them gives me a fairly good understanding of things. Of course, it's better to actually "hear" that the signal is going where you expect....but as far as what the software offers and how it basically looks and works...I like the offline editors.
Good luck.
I agree with the hands on....but I am a Network Admin by day. Downloading the software to these consoles and going through them gives me a fairly good understanding of things. Of course, it's better to actually "hear" that the signal is going where you expect....but as far as what the software offers and how it basically looks and works...I like the offline editors.
Good luck.
Re: VCA vs POP
I am self-unemployed, sleep all day and play accordion in the darkness. I have four cats who will probably eat me when I die.
I am self-unemployed, sleep all day and play accordion in the darkness. I have four cats who will probably eat me when I die.
Re: VCA vs POP
Very similar to VCA spilling from the VENUE/ICON series mixers or "Layouts" from the System 5.
The MCA groups are what make the Midas stuff stand out to me.
Very similar to VCA spilling from the VENUE/ICON series mixers or "Layouts" from the System 5.
The MCA groups are what make the Midas stuff stand out to me.
Re: VCA vs POP
Just remember, POP groups are not just limited to inputs! You can also assign outputs to POP groups to get easy access to anything. MCA's are also awesome- Midas has some cool ideas floating around these boards!
Evan
Just remember, POP groups are not just limited to inputs! You can also assign outputs to POP groups to get easy access to anything. MCA's are also awesome- Midas has some cool ideas floating around these boards!
Evan
Re: VCA vs POP
Almost related...
Is MCA the same as sends-on-faders or is there a difference between them?
Almost related...
Is MCA the same as sends-on-faders or is there a difference between them?
Re: VCA vs POP
What's the difference between a POP group and a "user assignable layer" in Yamaha-world?
What's the difference between a POP group and a "user assignable layer" in Yamaha-world?
Re: VCA vs POP
I believe the basic difference is that the POP groups will pull things out of multiple layers. A user assignable layer may in effect be the same, but my guess is that a desk with POP groups just gives you more groups than you'll get by using layers. But what do I know.....
I believe the basic difference is that the POP groups will pull things out of multiple layers. A user assignable layer may in effect be the same, but my guess is that a desk with POP groups just gives you more groups than you'll get by using layers. But what do I know.....
Re: VCA vs POP
Hopefully more people will chime in.
On my Yamaha DM 2000 there are 5 "layers":
ch 1-24
ch 25-48
ch 49-72
ch 73-96
Master (bus/aux/mtx)
And then I can build 3 more "custom layers" that can be any combination of anything on the 5 other layers.
Only limitation is that the same input/output channel can't be assigned twice to the same user layer.
Interested to hear how the POP groups are different from this
Hopefully more people will chime in.
On my Yamaha DM 2000 there are 5 "layers":
ch 1-24
ch 25-48
ch 49-72
ch 73-96
Master (bus/aux/mtx)
And then I can build 3 more "custom layers" that can be any combination of anything on the 5 other layers.
Only limitation is that the same input/output channel can't be assigned twice to the same user layer.
Interested to hear how the POP groups are different from this
Re: VCA vs POP
Very similar concept... different execution IMHO
The Midas PRO series is a banking/scrolling euphemism instead of layers. Your inputs/outputs are one big line and you are sliding your "window" of available faders around to show the ones you want.
You create VCA groups to have typical VCA control over many inputs/outputs and then use POP groups to bring the members of that group to the faders....
Does that make sense?
Robert - I only used the MCA's for one show and from what i was able to tell its like a combination of sends on faders AND pop groups.
So you load the MCA for an output and it shows you all the channels assigned to that output in sends on faders mode for that output.
Was really great for riding FX and was really great for very quickly tweaking monitor mixes. Seemed like a great console for festival monitor duties IMO.... you really get to leverage the speed of control access.
If anyone with more experience can chime in I'd appreciate it.... again ive only mixed on it 3 times so far. Really enjoyed it though!
Hopefully more people will chime in.
On my Yamaha DM 2000 there are 5 "layers":
ch 1-24
ch 25-48
ch 49-72
ch 73-96
Master (bus/aux/mtx)
And then I can build 3 more "custom layers" that can be any combination of anything on the 5 other layers.
Only limitation is that the same input/output channel can't be assigned twice to the same user layer.
Interested to hear how the POP groups are different from this
Very similar concept... different execution IMHO
The Midas PRO series is a banking/scrolling euphemism instead of layers. Your inputs/outputs are one big line and you are sliding your "window" of available faders around to show the ones you want.
You create VCA groups to have typical VCA control over many inputs/outputs and then use POP groups to bring the members of that group to the faders....
Does that make sense?
Robert - I only used the MCA's for one show and from what i was able to tell its like a combination of sends on faders AND pop groups.
So you load the MCA for an output and it shows you all the channels assigned to that output in sends on faders mode for that output.
Was really great for riding FX and was really great for very quickly tweaking monitor mixes. Seemed like a great console for festival monitor duties IMO.... you really get to leverage the speed of control access.
If anyone with more experience can chime in I'd appreciate it.... again ive only mixed on it 3 times so far. Really enjoyed it though!
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The big difference to me is you get more pop groups but you can't put VCAs in a pop group (hope this changes!)
On a CL I believe you can put a VCA in your custom fader bank which would be handy for a "show layer" where you hang out to do most of your mixing. Especially on the desks that only have 16 faders...
Jason
Re: VCA vs POP
Custom layers are basically the same thing as POP groups, just assigned with a different process.
Midas POP: "I want these channels to show up when I press a button", and the console automatically maps them across the faders from low to high. Avid VENUE's "VCA spill" works the same way.
Yamaha Layer: "I want this fader to be channel 3, and this next fader to be channel 7, and then VCA 6..."
Custom layers are basically the same thing as POP groups, just assigned with a different process.
Midas POP: "I want these channels to show up when I press a button", and the console automatically maps them across the faders from low to high. Avid VENUE's "VCA spill" works the same way.
Yamaha Layer: "I want this fader to be channel 3, and this next fader to be channel 7, and then VCA 6..."
Re: VCA vs POP
I think also (from tradeshow playing, have yet to mix on one) the POP groups will automatically adjust when you add something to them. Same with the VCAs.
E.g. you have ch's 1, 2, 3, 7, 11, 12, 13 all assigned to the VCA (or POP) you then add ch's 8 and 9. When you select the POP group now, they appear as 1,2,3,7,8,9,11,12,13... of course this only works with electronic scribble strips.
Think some of the power comes from the fact that you can use automation to change the assignments from snapshot to snapshot... at least I think you can!
MCA's are like another set of VCA's (or many sets actually) for the aux outputs. When you grab the VCAs whilst an aux output is selected, you are only affecting the channels send levels to that aux output. What's assigned to the VCAs is what is assigned to the MCA's but the MCA's only affect the ch aux send levels.
Hmmm... so hard to describe that coherently, and I think I failed, makes more sense when in front of console (says Steve after 15 mins at a tradeshow)
Someone correct me if I'm wrong please...
I think also (from tradeshow playing, have yet to mix on one) the POP groups will automatically adjust when you add something to them. Same with the VCAs.
E.g. you have ch's 1, 2, 3, 7, 11, 12, 13 all assigned to the VCA (or POP) you then add ch's 8 and 9. When you select the POP group now, they appear as 1,2,3,7,8,9,11,12,13... of course this only works with electronic scribble strips.
Think some of the power comes from the fact that you can use automation to change the assignments from snapshot to snapshot... at least I think you can!
MCA's are like another set of VCA's (or many sets actually) for the aux outputs. When you grab the VCAs whilst an aux output is selected, you are only affecting the channels send levels to that aux output. What's assigned to the VCAs is what is assigned to the MCA's but the MCA's only affect the ch aux send levels.
Hmmm... so hard to describe that coherently, and I think I failed, makes more sense when in front of console (says Steve after 15 mins at a tradeshow)
Someone correct me if I'm wrong please...