Venice F

B

Ben Gingerich

Sophomore
Oct 19, 2012
188
0
16
Warner Robins Ga
I have used the older Venice consoles many times (to many times) but got to use the 24f (F=firewire) last night that was connected to a computer running logic pro for all their dynamics and effects it worked pretty well and was nice event.
Why is there no love for a proven peice of entry level gear with processing, fx and recording thats so cheap?

What are the positves and negatives of something like this for a small rental company?
 
Re: Venice F

Ben Gingerich said:
I have used the older Venice consoles many times (to many times) but got to use the 24f (F=firewire) last night that was connected to a computer running logic pro for all their dynamics and effects it worked pretty well and was nice event.
Why is there no love for a proven peice of entry level gear with processing, fx and recording thats so cheap?

What are the positves and negatives of something like this for a small rental company?
Click to expand...

I thought that the VeniceF should have been a huge hit for smaller operators. Problem was the Presonus 24.4.2 came out and now we have the X32 which might arguably be said to be a digital Venice... With built in comps, gates, FX..etc in a customizable and recallable package.... For lots less money.
 
Re: Venice F

John Chiara said:
I thought that the VeniceF should have been a huge hit for smaller operators. Problem was the Presonus 24.4.2 came out and now we have the X32 which might arguably be said to be a digital Venice... With built in comps, gates, FX..etc in a customizable and recallable package.... For lots less money.
Click to expand...

The Venice24f map is $2500 (dont know what the F32 is), thats cheaper than the x32.
With this new digital age is there no value to being able to replace channels and not have a console out for weeks while its being fixed or when my software crashes still having a usable console?
I do get that theres places an x32 would be a benifit and i'm even considering buying one in feb, but i dont get a how a console (sl24) without flying faders the same channels count and your going to have a pc or tablet there anyway would be better then what i would consider a "real entry level console" at a cheaper cost with the reliability i said above while still having your comps, gates, fx and recording (via the computer/tablet).
 
Re: Venice F

The Venice FX has far to few aux sends! In addition the digital routing is not very sophisticated. It's a pain to insert a plugin in the mains or subgroups, doable but clumsy.
Also the price drop on it is quite dramatic...
 
Re: Venice F

Christian Boche said:
The Venice FX has far to few aux sends! In addition the digital routing is not very sophisticated. It's a pain to insert a plugin in the mains or subgroups, doable but clumsy.
Also the price drop on it is quite dramatic...
Click to expand...

4 real aux sends (6 total however 2 are only post fader 1/4 in) is the pretty tough to work on, but im just shocked that this has not gotten more attention from the bar band/church groups, let alone rental companies that want a console for rental stuff that can take a beating.
 
Re: Venice F

I'm a weekend warrior and purchased the Midas F32 for the following reasons:

*Ease of use
*Good sound quality for the clients I serve
*Multitrack recording
*Rental appeal - Return On Investment

For shows that I need more than 4 aux sends I use a LS9-32 and/or run an audio split between the two, typically the F32 is FOH and LS9 for monitors. I haven't bothered using the software plugins since I have 16 channels of analog comps/gates. I've been able to cross rent the F32 to larger sound companies that need to fill a quick void and to small to mid size churches. IMO there will always be an analog market in some fashion and hopefully the F32 will provide at least 5 to 10 years of useful life. Also, once I estimated the costs in trying to multitrack from the LS9-32 ($500 - $2000 depending on gear selection), the price point of the F32 seemed reasonable given its many attributes.
 
Re: Venice F

Midas had sold more Venice F, if they had build in more Aux sends (10 or 12). My guess, they didn't want to an ihouse competition with the Midas Verona.
Anyway, did some gigs with the VeniceF and did all external processing (gates, compression, reverb, delay, EQ) on an old Asus Laptop and LiveProfessor as VST Plugin host.
That was fun:-)





By now I'm about to revive my old Soundcraft ViennaII with a bigger LivePofessor setup for a permanent install.
This kind of hybrid mixing is fun and good for the enviroment...recycling the old analog gear:-)
 
Re: Venice F

Hi Marjan,
sure no problem.

I was always interested in alternative ways of mixing. I started in the late 1980s with analog mixers (with a Mitec EX) and the usual siderack and coppercore madness. Than I bought one of the first digital mixers available (Yamaha ProMix01) and did all my small gigs with that. Than I bought a Soundcraft Venue and a Yamaha 02R and did my studio and live work with that. In the Studio I used a Soundcraft 2400, after that a DC2020 and finally bought a RME Hammerfall card with RME convertors and went very early the "InTheBox-route". Two years ago I stumbled over SAC ( SAC - Software Audio Console ) a virtual live mixer, that lets you use your favourite VST Plugins in a live enviroment. I was sold right away. After two years I run into the Behringer X32 and love it too. Meanwhile I sold nearly everything from my analoge gear, but I did not have the heart to sell my old Soundcraft Vienna II. If you look into evilbay, the prices for analog desks are insanely cheap. Lately they sold a A&H ML5000 for under 2.000,- EURO (Case, PSUs included), or a Midas XL3 for just 2.400,- Euros! So I thought, I keep my Vienna II...even if I don't use it anymore.

Than I run into LiveProfessor lately--> LiveProfessor |

Which is a very economical VST host software. So I thought, why not use this as digital siderack on my analoge Soundcraft mixer? The missing link is a propper Windows PC and a soundcard. Due to my experience with SAC, I know at least a bit, how to tweak windows and what soundcards are good for real time audio. Of course, I wanted the cheapest possible combination, so I used my old SAC desktop PC (Core2Duo, E8400 CPU, 4GB RAM, Windows XP pro) und bought some dead cheap PCI soundcards. I use two Terratec Mic8 convertors with two Terratec EWS88MT PCI cards. If you want to go really cheap, than look into these-->

Terratec EWS88MT

I see these cards with breakoutbox for about 50,- Euros on ebay. You can hook up up to four (!) of them...if you find a mobo with four PCI slots:-)
Anyway, or you buy some of the old RME or MoTu PCI stuff...it will run with 64Samples, that gives you an overall latency of 3ms from analog in to analog out. Good enough for Live use.
Stay away from USB or Firewire soundcards, those will always ad a security buffer to your overall latency and in addition will not perform so stable when dealing with a high channel counts and/or high CPU load.

Now you will need some plugins. I have a lot of them, because of my studio work, but there are lot's of good freeware plugins out there, that will do the trick.
Here is a nice list:

Freeware and donateware plugins - SAWStudio / SAC User Group

In the end, you just have to connect your analog desk with your soundcard/computer/LiveProfessor. That's it!
By now, I have a default scene in LiveProfessor, that covers a basic rock band needs:

Valhalla Reverb
Waves Super Tap Delay
6 x Waves SSL Channel (Drums+Bass)
1 x Drumagog (Kickdrum)
5 x Fabfilter Pro EQ (for my monitors)

For the mains I use one analog 31Band EQ, the rest is covered with the LiveProfessor setup. By now my Vienna II is in service (PSUs and the power distribution board needs help), but I will get it back next week.
Than I will hook up my PC and if everthing works like it should, than I will install this combination in a 400pax club, where I'm the residential mixer guy.
I won't take my Vienna on the road anymore, but I see a future for this kind of "hybrid mixing" particularly in permanent installs. I will let you do things, that you can't do with a normal desk!
I will post some pictures, when I got it working.

LiveProfessor and Venice F is a bit easier, because you can use the build in firewire soundcard. Unfortunately Midas uses the DICE junior FiWi chip, which I could get to work with 64Samples, but the Fiwi security buffer that comes along with it is quite big. I couldn't get the latency lower then 7ms - sketchy at least. But LiveProfessor is a nice piece of software and I'm courios how it turns out in the end.

Christian
 
Last edited:
Re: Venice F

Well that's interesting! What's your round trip latency with the PCI I/O cards?

I own an f32 and use it mainly in my home studio. I thought I was gonna sell it until I realized how glorious to work with Ina home studio environment.

Having used if live a few times I really like it. Best small format analogue console there is and it says midas on it which always helps when renting. It sounds great and feels great and is easy to use. Only thing I didn't like was the FireWire integration or lack there of at the groups and masters. You can take direct outs to a laptop from there but you can't return FireWire audio back. So you can't use external plugins at the groups or over the masters. Bummed me out. Was really looking forward to trying multi band compression over the mix and being anle to leave most of my outboard at home and such but no dice. And not being able to comp at the groups is a big deal when running wedges from FOH. But honestly you have to have a stout laptop to be confident in stability and get over round trip latency issues anyway. And it's a lot to manage. Don't sell your hardware outboard.

so while its limited as a hybrid digital analogue console multitracking and using virtual soundchecks is an excellent feature.
 
Re: Venice F

Roundtrip is 3,2ms:-)
When I reviewed the Venice F back than, I used some plugins in the subgroups, but I remeber it was quite clumsy. If I remember correct I had the mains running through a subgroup where I used a 31Band plugin from Anwida. And you had to very careful to aviod routings with feedback loops, so I know what you mean.
 
Top Bottom