Waves plug-ins with Yamaha CL5

Andrew Broughton

Andrew Broughton

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Feb 2, 2011
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So, I don't really understand Waves, hopefully someone here has used it and can help me understand.

When using Native plugins, i.e. using a PC instead of SoundGrid, can't Waves plugins just be instantiated within a plugin host on the PC and then receive and send audio to the console via DVS?

What is the Waves Mini-YDGAI card needed for? Does Waves not work without it?

Somebody clue me in, their website doesn't seem to explain it.



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Re: Waves plug-ins with Yamaha CL5

Andrew Broughton said:
So, I don't really understand Waves, hopefully someone here has used it and can help me understand.

When using Native plugins, i.e. using a PC instead of SoundGrid, can't Waves plugins just be instantiated within a plugin host on the PC and then receive and send audio to the console via DVS?

What is the Waves Mini-YDGAI card needed for? Does Waves not work without it?

Somebody clue me in, their website doesn't seem to explain it.
Click to expand...

I'm not a real Waves expert, but I believe that plug ins run on a Waves server and connected via the Waves MY card run with near zero latency. Running Native on a general purpose computer via DVS is going to introduce latency both in the processing and in the I/O. I would expect non time sensitive plug ins like reverbs to be fine on a laptop, while dynamics and eq inserted on your money channels maybe not so much.

I am thinking about whether or not I want to invest $1100 in hardware to get the WNS or NS-1 noise reduction plug ins. Even $1500 would be cheap for the equivalent of many channels of Cedar noise reduction.

Mac
 
Re: Waves plug-ins with Yamaha CL5

Thanks, Mac.

I'm aware of the differences in using Native vs. SoundGrid WRT latency, but I'm more curious about 2 things when running Native:

1. Is the Waves Mini-YDGAI card required with the Yamaha? (The Waves site shows it being used in both Native and SoundGrid mode)
2. What's a good plugin host (simple as possible) that will work with Waves? I hear Reaper is not suitable, and it's not listed on the Waves site as one of the listed hosts, but I don't know if that's true or not... Something simple (and free or at least inexpensive) would be good.
 
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Re: Waves plug-ins with Yamaha CL5

I have the Soundgrid Server One and the Y16 in my console. The way it was explained to me by a Waves tech is that the GUI is on the laptop and the "Number Crunching" is handled by the server. The server exchanges the audio directly with the Y16 and the audio is not actually going to the laptop.


BUT............ Today's tech conversation revealed that Soundgrid DOES NOT play nicely with Dante. So now I need to add a THIRD network to my laptop. (Wireless Internet, Dante with built in wired Gigabit connection, and now Soundgrid with a USB 3.0 to RJ45 Gigabit connector)

The tech kinda implied that this may be fixed in the future. I can attest to dropouts in the Soundgrid running on the same net as Dante.
 
Re: Waves plug-ins with Yamaha CL5

Andrew Broughton said:
Thanks, Steve.

I'm only interested in trying Native, not SoundGrid, at this point.

Sent from my iPhone
Click to expand...

From a licensing perspective, they are the same. You install whatever version of the plugins works on your hardware and your licenses should just work. Note that if you've not updated your licenses under the Waves Update Plan, you'll need to subscribe to WUP and then update to the universal licenses.
 
Re: Waves plug-ins with Yamaha CL5

I guess I'm not being clear.

I only have 2 very specific questions:

1. Is the Waves Y16 card a requirement when running Native plugins with a Yamaha console, or can I just use Dante/DVS?

2. Is the Waves MultiRack software a requirement when using Native plugins with a Yamaha console?


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Re: Waves plug-ins with Yamaha CL5

Yes. Live Professor works with waves plug-ins. If you intend to run the plug-ins native on your PC, you just need a way to get audio in and out of this pc. No Waves card is required. You can use ADAT, analog, whatever. Dante is said to have issues in respect to latency (and following Steven, also in respect to stability), reports can be found on these internet boards, but I have no personal experience of using Dante whatsoever. Said issues are also common in using audio interfaces, but you know that, of course.

If you want to use dedicated Waves hardware to PROCESS your audio, you need the Waves card and a Soundgrid server - for example the Waves Impact Combo or similar. Multirack as a plug-in host is included in this package, as are a few fx-plugins.

Apart from the system requirements for running the plug-ins, I recommend you research the workflow of each plugin-host. This can be done with demo versions of the plug-ins and of multirack itself. Some GUI might suit you and your workflow better than the other, and thats, what its all about, if you don't want to spend all your mixing time scrolling and clicking around on your plug-in hosts computer screen...

Hope this helps,

th
 
Re: Waves plug-ins with Yamaha CL5

Andrew Broughton said:
1. Is the Waves Y16 card a requirement when running Native plugins with a Yamaha console, or can I just use Dante/DVS?

2. Is the Waves MultiRack software a requirement when using Native plugins with a Yamaha console?
Click to expand...

My experience is with the QL but CL should be similar.

1. No. I run Native plugins in a host on a PC and route through DVS

2. You need a host for the plugins, I use MultiRack but I understand other hosts may work. It's not a Yamaha thing, the console just sees the Dante signal.

You can always download the demos and try them in a different host.

Just for completeness. You may have latency issues depending on your application and chosen plugins. Also, you would need a Dante MY if you wanted to insert waves on a channel or mix bus
 
Re: Waves plug-ins with Yamaha CL5

Ade stuart said:
1. No. I run Native plugins in a host on a PC and route through DVS

2. You need a host for the plugins, I use MultiRack but I understand other hosts may work. It's not a Yamaha thing, the console just sees the Dante signal.

You can always download the demos and try them in a different host.
Click to expand...
Thank you very much. This was the information I was looking for.

Also, you would need a Dante MY if you wanted to insert waves on a channel or mix bus
Click to expand...
As a kludge, you could insert them between the RIO and console, if pre-everything worked for you, but it is pretty silly that Yamaha decided to (seemingly arbitrarily) limit the sources and destinations for inserts, as well as destinations for direct outs...

Thank you again for clarifying the Waves thing for me.


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Re: Waves plug-ins with Yamaha CL5

Finally figured out how to log in. Stupid computers!

The soundgrid driver is just a core audio driver (on mac) and shows up in the system as an audio device. The driver must be running. From the host you select it as your I/O. DVS is similar so yes it will work. DVS is said to have too much latency. It will probably be a month before I measure it. Multirack makes a great host and it's organized well. If you want just a license I have 3, and would be happy to sell one of them. You don't need the server but there is a core audio bug that causes some excess latency issues sometimes Soundgrid servers are indeed less latent. If you only need a limited number of effects I bet you could get the compact server and card combo for around $850-$900 delivered and that comes with the SG driver in case you wanted to use it native, and multitrack soundgrid and native versions. It even comes with a few good effects.

The weekly sales are better than before they merged native to SG and the regular prices haven't gone up that much. The GEQ is on sale for $69 bucks. I bought the native only version on sale for $99 several months ago.

In regards to other hosts,...if you can get audio in, and get audio out, through the host, and the host can run the driver, then it will work. It's only a matter of how much latency you can stand. You could use a DAW even. Multirack works really well, did I mention that?
 
Re: Waves plug-ins with Yamaha CL5

What's the best way to use the Waves stuff with an older Avid Venue Profile console? (Assuming you don't have one of the SoundGrid servers...)

Can you just install them on the mix engine? Does it make any sense to run them natively from a computer using Multirack?
 
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