Weird X32/S16 dropout problem - DANTE

Karl Barnes

Sophomore
Aug 28, 2012
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London, England
I thought I'd post details of a problem that has come up recently with my X32 system.

Background
X32 purchased in August 2012. I was an early adopter.
2 x S16 purchased later that year.
So far I've had two and a half years of faultless performance.
For iPad control, I have a wireless router in the X32 dogbox.

Recently, I've started to do multitrack recording from the USB card, but I've found that there are glitches in the recordings, so much so that some tracks can be up to 10 seconds out of sync with others by the end of a 1 hour recording.
To mitigate this, I've put an SSD in the laptop and increased its RAM.
The problem still persisted, so I spashed on a Dante card.
I've wired this according to the online info. Primary goes into the router, which is where the laptop connects.
Secondary goes into the Ethernet control port on the X32 and the X32 has the master clock; all IP addresses are static.
This allows me to record the output from the Dante card into Reaper and also to have iPad control wirelessly.
I can also run XEdit on the laptop if I really want to.
This appears to have fixed the recordings issue, but it has had a catastrophic effect on the rest of the system.

The last 3 gigs I have done (the first since the Dante card was installed) have had me at my wits end trying to get the S16s on the stage to stay in sync with the X32 at FOH.
The connection would drop every 45 seconds or so.

I know what you're thinking here.... it's the CAT5 cable.

Each venue had it's own installed run, so I thought the same thing. It must be unscreened. I am aware of other users who have had the same symptom with unscreened cable.
I ran my own screened CAT5 cable from stage to FOH. No dice. The dropouts continued.
I used my spare CAT5 reel. More dropouts.

At this point, I opened the stage rack and replaced the link cable between the two S16s. The dropouts continued.
I rebooted both stage and FOH devices. The problem continued.
What would then happed is that a few minutes before 'doors open' I would hit on a combination of rebooting and restarting that would keep sync without dropping.
That was more luck than anything.

This happened at three different venues on three separate nights.
Each night we would use the venues CAT5 run only to revert to our own when the dropouts started.
On the third night, I was seriously considering moving the desk onto the stage to take the long CAT5 run out of the picture.
By this time, all the CAT5 cable in the system had been replaced more than once (yes, it's all screened).

What appears to have fixed the situation is removing the laptop from the setup and powering it all up like that.
Only once the system is powered up should the laptop be connected to the network and powered up.

This is a very weird situation.
The Dante connection is nothing to do with the AES50 side of things.
The AES50 cable goes straight out of the desk to the stage and to the S16s (no router involved, as the data is not compatible).

All I can think of is that some sort of data choking was occuring inside the X32 between the AES50 feed and the Dante card, when the laptop was connected before power up.

My next gig with this system is on 31st May.
Hopefully now I know how to avoid this, it won't be a problem, but either way, it was weird that the Dante connection could affect the AES50 link in such a big way.

I've posted this more for information to others than a request for help.
I think I've fixed the problem, and thought I would share my findings.
If anyone has anything useful to add to this, please do.

Karl.
 
Re: Weird X32/S16 dropout problem - DANTE

I thought I'd post details of a problem that has come up recently with my X32 system.


I've wired this according to the online info. Primary goes into the router, which is where the laptop connects.
Secondary goes into the Ethernet control port on the X32 and the X32 has the master clock; all IP addresses are static.
This allows me to record the output from the Dante card into Reaper and also to have iPad control wirelessly.
I can also run XEdit on the laptop if I really want to.
This appears to have fixed the recordings issue, but it has had a catastrophic effect on the rest of the system.

Have you done any diagnostics to check how the system is all clocking together? Generally Dante wants to be the master clock, and it sounds like your stageboxes are not clocked to it. It is OK to have the Dante card clock to the console when it is the only Dante device, that is probably what is happening when you wait till the system is up before connecting the laptop.

I don't understand why the secondary Dante port is connected to the console control port. I think the console control port should be connected to the same switch as the laptop and the Dante primary port, with only DVS on the laptop you do not need the secondary Dante port.

Mac
 
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Re: Weird X32/S16 dropout problem - DANTE

It's got to be a clock sync issue. Seems like one of the clocks is trying to force the other to it's clock and neither are complying.

Maybe you need a Big Ben; it makes the system sound many times better than otherwise. </sarcasm>
 
Re: Weird X32/S16 dropout problem - DANTE

I've wired this according to the online info. Primary goes into the router, which is where the laptop connects.
Secondary goes into the Ethernet control port on the X32 and the X32 has the master clock; all IP addresses are static.
This allows me to record the output from the Dante card into Reaper and also to have iPad control wirelessly.
I can also run XEdit on the laptop if I really want to.
This appears to have fixed the recordings issue, but it has had a catastrophic effect on the rest of the system.
While the dante card secondary port is configured as a switch by default I have my router/switch so close to the mixer that I found it more easy to connect the x32 ethernet port right into the router/switch instead of the dante card.

The x32 should NOT be the master clock. It should be set to use the Card as the master clock.

The Dante connection is nothing to do with the AES50 side of things.
The AES50 cable goes straight out of the desk to the stage and to the S16s (no router involved, as the data is not compatible).

All I can think of is that some sort of data choking was occuring inside the X32 between the AES50 feed and the Dante card, when the laptop was connected before power up.
There was a dante clock sync issue regarding aes50 that was fixed with the latest firmware. However a part of the fix was also that you in some cases also needed to update the s16 firmware as well.

I hope this helps...
 
Re: Weird X32/S16 dropout problem - DANTE

Have you done any diagnostics to check how the system is all clocking together? Generally Dante wants to be the master clock, and it sounds like your stageboxes are not clocked to it. It is OK to have the Dante card clock to the console when it is the only Dante device, that is probably what is happening when you wait till the system is up before connecting the laptop.

I don't understand why the secondary Dante port is connected to the console control port. I think the console control port should be connected to the same switch as the laptop and the Dante primary port, with only DVS on the laptop you do not need the secondary Dante port.

Mac


+1,

Karl,
I had a similar issue with an M32, X32Rack and a Yamaha QL1. The M32 and X32R were connected via AES50 and the QL1 was connected via Dante to the X32R. IMO, You should always be running Dante Controller on the network simply for the data logging. It will tell you where the problem is. In my case, the solution was simply unchecking the box that said something to the effect of "allow synch to external clock" next to one of the devices. I forget which device it was, but it was the one listed in the Dante Controller Log as loosing synch. Once I did that, all problems were solved.

-JP