I have an ML3000, but in looking at some used ML4000's and 5000's I noticed that the inserts are different. Rather than just a TRS "insert," there is both a send and receive connector on each channel. I used to have a Mackie SR40.8 with the same config......Does anybody know why Allen & Heath had this different even within the same series of console?? Seems like it might be a more "reliable" insert system, but also seems more time consuming for patching to me.
Whats the point of send/receive channel inserts versus TRS?
- Thread starter Brandon Blakeney
- Start date
Re: Whats the point of send/receive channel inserts versus TRS?
You mean balanced vs unbalanced? It's usually a space/cost/etc thing....
You mean balanced vs unbalanced? It's usually a space/cost/etc thing....
Re: Whats the point of send/receive channel inserts versus TRS?
Most large format analog consoles have balanced insert points which requires all 3 pins of the trs connector.
Most large format analog consoles have balanced insert points which requires all 3 pins of the trs connector.
Re: Whats the point of send/receive channel inserts versus TRS?
The A&H GL2200 uses a single insert jack vs. the GL4000 which uses separate send/return jacks. The only difference is that you can run relatively long lines to your gear when using balanced cabling (not required) since the send is impedance balanced. Since I had both desks and didn't want to have to wire up two different types of insert snakes for the same rack, I used the single point insert snakes and then used Whirlwind TRS female locking connector (Neutrik) to dual TS 1/4" jacks adapters when I'd use the GL4000. The locking TRS female on the adapters is solid so you don't have to worry about your TRS insert coming out in the doghouse.
Greg
The A&H GL2200 uses a single insert jack vs. the GL4000 which uses separate send/return jacks. The only difference is that you can run relatively long lines to your gear when using balanced cabling (not required) since the send is impedance balanced. Since I had both desks and didn't want to have to wire up two different types of insert snakes for the same rack, I used the single point insert snakes and then used Whirlwind TRS female locking connector (Neutrik) to dual TS 1/4" jacks adapters when I'd use the GL4000. The locking TRS female on the adapters is solid so you don't have to worry about your TRS insert coming out in the doghouse.
Greg
Re: Whats the point of send/receive channel inserts versus TRS?
It's a cost/benefit thing... Balanced XLR send/return inserts require significantly more space and cost more. Simple TRS inserts work adequately for short paths (unbalanced), and cost less.
The balanced are better, it's only money... money that most don't spend.
JR
It's a cost/benefit thing... Balanced XLR send/return inserts require significantly more space and cost more. Simple TRS inserts work adequately for short paths (unbalanced), and cost less.
The balanced are better, it's only money... money that most don't spend.
JR
Re: Whats the point of send/receive channel inserts versus TRS?
Oh, how I liked the XLR inserts on those big ships. Big, big improvement over these jacks, especially after some time in the field. Of course that required to switch on inserts in the channel as XLR inputs can't switch inserts like jacks can.
It's also easier to fix stuck switching jacks on the seperate version, a short balanced jack to jack cable does the trick when there are no "insert on/off" switches in the channel. For the unbalanced version it's no standard everybody has in the toolbox. Remember those short cables laying around in the doghouses?
+1, it's only money...
Oh, how I liked the XLR inserts on those big ships. Big, big improvement over these jacks, especially after some time in the field. Of course that required to switch on inserts in the channel as XLR inputs can't switch inserts like jacks can.
It's also easier to fix stuck switching jacks on the seperate version, a short balanced jack to jack cable does the trick when there are no "insert on/off" switches in the channel. For the unbalanced version it's no standard everybody has in the toolbox. Remember those short cables laying around in the doghouses?
Re: Whats the point of send/receive channel inserts versus TRS?
Probably not the intended purpose, but an additional benefit is that you can get by with just some instrument cables in a pinch. I also find it a little easier to wire up severel inserts in series for one channel with the "dual-point" style of inserts.
Probably not the intended purpose, but an additional benefit is that you can get by with just some instrument cables in a pinch. I also find it a little easier to wire up severel inserts in series for one channel with the "dual-point" style of inserts.
Re: Whats the point of send/receive channel inserts versus TRS?
Plus they give you a solid balanced pre/everything direct out. Much easier to do tricks with like multing channels, etc.
Plus they give you a solid balanced pre/everything direct out. Much easier to do tricks with like multing channels, etc.
Re: Whats the point of send/receive channel inserts versus TRS?
this. as well as a post pre balanced input that's switchable with the insert in/out switch. occasionally useful as well...
this. as well as a post pre balanced input that's switchable with the insert in/out switch. occasionally useful as well...
Re: Whats the point of send/receive channel inserts versus TRS?
The is classic console design calculus... a feature that everybody should like (that complaint about taking longer to patch up is the first complaint I ever heard.), but few want it enough to pay for it. While the cost of 2 XLR connectors, a switch, maybe an extra active driver line may not seem like much, but when compared to the single TRS, and this difference gets multiplied by the total number of inserts in that product. Then there's the panel real estate. A compact mixer may not have lots of room for the extra and larger connectors in the rear jack field, and adding another front panel switch.
A premium feature for larger, more expensive products that can tolerate it.
JR
The is classic console design calculus... a feature that everybody should like (that complaint about taking longer to patch up is the first complaint I ever heard.), but few want it enough to pay for it. While the cost of 2 XLR connectors, a switch, maybe an extra active driver line may not seem like much, but when compared to the single TRS, and this difference gets multiplied by the total number of inserts in that product. Then there's the panel real estate. A compact mixer may not have lots of room for the extra and larger connectors in the rear jack field, and adding another front panel switch.
A premium feature for larger, more expensive products that can tolerate it.
JR