Is there any way to get real limiters in the XTi amps, or are they only available as the handicapped "off, -6, -12" sort of thing I can see in System Architect? I want a power limiter to keep DJs from blowing up a distributed PA.
XTi Limiters
- Thread starter Bennett Prescott
- Start date
Re: XTi Limiters
Not that I am aware of Bennett. If you find out some special "easter egg" to do this, I'd love to know.
Not that I am aware of Bennett. If you find out some special "easter egg" to do this, I'd love to know.
Re: XTi Limiters
YOu can either leave the limiters off and when the amp clips you get that "nice" broken glass-metal scraping sound or at a minimum limit the output to half power and get a large pumping sound when you hit the limiter.
I usually tell people to buy an amp (of that series) that is at least twice as large as you think you should be using.
A case of you get what you pay for. People "think" they are getting an Itech at a cheaper price-NOT!
YOu can either leave the limiters off and when the amp clips you get that "nice" broken glass-metal scraping sound or at a minimum limit the output to half power and get a large pumping sound when you hit the limiter.
I usually tell people to buy an amp (of that series) that is at least twice as large as you think you should be using.
A case of you get what you pay for. People "think" they are getting an Itech at a cheaper price-NOT!
Re: XTi Limiters
XTI or XTI2's?
Also I'm almost certain that the led levels on the front of the amp are input, you will clip the input stage before the amp even gets to full output.
XTI or XTI2's?
Also I'm almost certain that the led levels on the front of the amp are input, you will clip the input stage before the amp even gets to full output.
Re: XTi Limiters
Then what good is that? Why would you not be able to drive the amp to full output? Maybe I am missing something.
Yes, you can clip the input to an amp-but only if you have turned the gain down quite a bit. How much depends on the particular amp-but 15-20dB is a good "general" number that I have measured on various amplifers.
Then what good is that? Why would you not be able to drive the amp to full output? Maybe I am missing something.
Yes, you can clip the input to an amp-but only if you have turned the gain down quite a bit. How much depends on the particular amp-but 15-20dB is a good "general" number that I have measured on various amplifers.
Re: XTi Limiters
I would have to double check, but I think it was like 9db difference.
Tom Ried ( I think) on the other forum had done a write up, let me see if I can find it.
Edit: Wrong name
I would have to double check, but I think it was like 9db difference.
Tom Ried ( I think) on the other forum had done a write up, let me see if I can find it.
Edit: Wrong name
Last edited:
Tim Weaver
Senior
Re: XTi Limiters
You could always put a dominator in front of the amps, and leave the software limiters off.
You could always put a dominator in front of the amps, and leave the software limiters off.
Re: XTi Limiters
Heck, if you're driving a multi-way active system, may as well get a decent processor with good limiters in it after you add up the cost of all those Dominators ;-) I'll Take the XTA or a BSS Omni...
Greg
Heck, if you're driving a multi-way active system, may as well get a decent processor with good limiters in it after you add up the cost of all those Dominators ;-) I'll Take the XTA or a BSS Omni...
Greg
Tim Weaver
Senior
Re: XTi Limiters
I was thinking more along the lines of using one dominator as the head end of the amp rack. Dominators are dirt cheap now. You can get them all day long for 200 bucks on ebay.
I was thinking more along the lines of using one dominator as the head end of the amp rack. Dominators are dirt cheap now. You can get them all day long for 200 bucks on ebay.
Silas Pradetto
Graduate Student
Re: XTi Limiters
IMHO, using an external DSP defeats the purpose of using a DSP amp altogether, not to mention that it adds an AD/DA stage, increasing latency and decreasing sound quality. I know some argue that the difference is inaudible, but in my experience, it definitely is.
That said, I've used XTi amps quite a bit and have a few observations I'll share:
I know it's been discussed before, but one I-Tech is usually less than double the price of a couple XTis, and has far more functionality and capability than any number of XTis could ever dream of having. This I-Tech advantage is especially obvious once people start spending $200+ on analog limiters just to make their XTi investment work.
IMHO, using an external DSP defeats the purpose of using a DSP amp altogether, not to mention that it adds an AD/DA stage, increasing latency and decreasing sound quality. I know some argue that the difference is inaudible, but in my experience, it definitely is.
That said, I've used XTi amps quite a bit and have a few observations I'll share:
- When using an XTi with the "DSP OFF" preset, input level = output level. That is, the input and outputs clip at about the same time, yielding maximum output.
- When using the internal XTi crossover, it makes sense that output level is less than input level, since the crossover is only passing part of the original input signal. The output level must be adjusted with "bandpass gain" to make output level again equal to input level. I normally leave the HF passbands at "0" and adjust the LF passbands to taste...10dB of gain is not uncommon, especially for the sub bandpass.
- The XTi limiter does work but sounds pretty bad. I found that using the output limiter on whatever digital console I was using worked better than the XTi limiter. I would leave the XTi limiter off just about all the time, except maybe as a failsafe for HF drivers.
I know it's been discussed before, but one I-Tech is usually less than double the price of a couple XTis, and has far more functionality and capability than any number of XTis could ever dream of having. This I-Tech advantage is especially obvious once people start spending $200+ on analog limiters just to make their XTi investment work.
Re: XTi Limiters
I want a power limiter, there is not enough amp power to overexcurse the drivers.
I want a power limiter, there is not enough amp power to overexcurse the drivers.
Re: XTi Limiters
I agree with you on all points here Silas. I guess the answer should be, "if the tools in the XTi aren't suitable, get something else." I've heard multiple cascaded stages of A to D/D to A. There's definitely a quality hit. Personally I haven't purchased an XTi, only used them on occasion in an install rig. But from what I've read since their inception, it sounds like something I wouldn't want to buy. I've heard a lot more negative things about them than positive.
Greg
I agree with you on all points here Silas. I guess the answer should be, "if the tools in the XTi aren't suitable, get something else." I've heard multiple cascaded stages of A to D/D to A. There's definitely a quality hit. Personally I haven't purchased an XTi, only used them on occasion in an install rig. But from what I've read since their inception, it sounds like something I wouldn't want to buy. I've heard a lot more negative things about them than positive.
Greg