Yamaha TF5 with Rio boxes?

Re: Yamaha TF5 with Rio boxes?

It's all moot until Yamaha starts shipping the Dante card for the TF series.

But probably no seamless easy integration, aside from being able to pass the audio over Dante. They've announced separate compatible stage boxes for TF.
 
Re: Yamaha TF5 with Rio boxes?

I got some hands on time with a TF series desk down at AES and hated it.

From my perspective they managed to incorporate the best shortcomings of the LS9 but removed even more physical controls and the tiny screen is too busy and hard to navigate. It is also missing some features that every other Yamaha desk has.

That combined with non-native Dante took it right off my list.


Sent from my iPad HD
 
Re: Yamaha TF5 with Rio boxes?

I personally really disliked the TF series. For many of the reasons that Rob mentioned. The problem is, that if you zoom out and look at it as a product in a huge market of low end products, its pretty good. Lots of expansion options and the Yamaha brand carries a lot of weight.

But, when you compare it to the excellent QL offerings, its always going to fall short. I think the QL stuff is absolutely excellent, and if you are a rental house/organisation that doesn't have to fill riders, there is not a whole lot that can't be done with a QL5. I mean it does 64 inputs to mix + 8 stereos in a package which is small, with entirely customisable fader layout, for sub £10k.

Of course the QL carries a higher price tag than a lot of its competitors, but thats not surprising when its (functionality wise) basically a PM5D (and then some) for a third of the price...
 
Re: Yamaha TF5 with Rio boxes?

Chris Johnson said:
I personally really disliked the TF series. For many of the reasons that Rob mentioned. The problem is, that if you zoom out and look at it as a product in a huge market of low end products, its pretty good. Lots of expansion options and the Yamaha brand carries a lot of weight.

But, when you compare it to the excellent QL offerings, its always going to fall short. I think the QL stuff is absolutely excellent, and if you are a rental house/organisation that doesn't have to fill riders, there is not a whole lot that can't be done with a QL5. I mean it does 64 inputs to mix + 8 stereos in a package which is small, with entirely customisable fader layout, for sub £10k.

Of course the QL carries a higher price tag than a lot of its competitors, but thats not surprising when its (functionality wise) basically a PM5D (and then some) for a third of the price...
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this.
 
Re: Yamaha TF5 with Rio boxes?

Chris Johnson said:
I personally really disliked the TF series. For many of the reasons that Rob mentioned. The problem is, that if you zoom out and look at it as a product in a huge market of low end products, its pretty good. Lots of expansion options and the Yamaha brand carries a lot of weight.

But, when you compare it to the excellent QL offerings, its always going to fall short. I think the QL stuff is absolutely excellent, and if you are a rental house/organisation that doesn't have to fill riders, there is not a whole lot that can't be done with a QL5. I mean it does 64 inputs to mix + 8 stereos in a package which is small, with entirely customisable fader layout, for sub £10k.

Of course the QL carries a higher price tag than a lot of its competitors, but thats not surprising when its (functionality wise) basically a PM5D (and then some) for a third of the price...
Click to expand...
If you can live without the Yamaha name, you get a lot more features per $$ with Allen&Heath - the GLD series on the low end, and the DLive series farther up the chain.
 
Re: Yamaha TF5 with Rio boxes?

The thing about the TF is that it's quite a bit different from other Yamaha mixers. I'd even say it's the next generation, and as such is kind of confusing when coming from the M7CL mindset. And there are, in typical Yamaha fashion, deliberate limitations for both marketing and usability reasons. Its a budget mixer, folks.
 
Re: Yamaha TF5 with Rio boxes?

Scott Helmke said:
The thing about the TF is that it's quite a bit different from other Yamaha mixers. I'd even say it's the next generation, and as such is kind of confusing when coming from the M7CL mindset. And there are, in typical Yamaha fashion, deliberate limitations for both marketing and usability reasons. Its a budget mixer, folks.
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It's understandable they want to protect the pricing structure of their line and they have reason to be proud of their products' reliability and acceptance in the marketplace, however it's hard to ignore external pressures. When other reputable vendors give substantially more for less, the clock is ticking. I think the CL series are fine mixers, but they cost 2X what I think they should, not that anyone asked my opinion.
 
Re: Yamaha TF5 with Rio boxes?

TJ Cornish said:
It's understandable they want to protect the pricing structure of their line and they have reason to be proud of their products' reliability and acceptance in the marketplace, however it's hard to ignore external pressures. When other reputable vendors give substantially more for less, the clock is ticking. I think the CL series are fine mixers, but they cost 2X what I think they should, not that anyone asked my opinion.
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I would agree that they let the "pricing structure" dictate limitations in models to the point that they surrender to competitors who offer greater value. In the market where Yamaha is aiming these mixers, they could have hit a home run IMO with the TF3 if they had only included the 32 input XLRs on the back panel that the TF5 has. There obviously is room in the console and on the panel, so the only reason they would have to NOT include them is to create a greater justification for the higher cost of the TF5 besides the fader count.

With 32 inputs on the TF3 they could have utilized the entire 48 channel count with the addition of a single stage box to the compact mixer. As it is now, with just 24 XLRs on the console, it will take 2 added boxes.

Maybe they have plans to add a TF4 to the line.
 
Re: Yamaha TF5 with Rio boxes?

Mike Pyle said:
I would agree that they let the "pricing structure" dictate limitations in models to the point that they surrender to competitors who offer greater value. In the market where Yamaha is aiming these mixers, they could have hit a home run IMO with the TF3 if they had only included the 32 input XLRs on the back panel that the TF5 has. There obviously is room in the console and on the panel, so the only reason they would have to NOT include them is to create a greater justification for the higher cost of the TF5 besides the fader count.
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Cost and usability are other good reasons for not including the 8 additional local inputs. On the cost side, it looks like the end-user cost of each additional input + fader is around $65. If we assume that just over half that is the fader and associated buttons, we get an additional $250 for those 8 local inputs.

Now, we have a console with more native physical inputs than faders. That'd a bit of an odd duck within Yamaha's lineup, as every console they make that wasn't designed with an integrated digital snake (so the LS9, M7CL, PM5D, 01V96, DM1000, DM2000, 02R, and QL series) has the same number of faders as physical inputs (not counting 2-track inputs). And that design philosophy has worked very well - with those consoles used in an "analog" fashion, there's none of the hunting for channels that are on other layers. Because honestly, cross-layer mixing is a pain.
 
Re: Yamaha TF5 with Rio boxes?

Rob Timmerman said:
honestly, cross-layer mixing is a pain.
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I guess it depends what your priorities are. I routinely use an M7 that my church owns and a GLD-80 that I own. New cost on the M7 was close to $20K. Current pricing of a 48-channel GLD system (full complement of stageboxes) is under $6K for the smaller surface, or a bit more for the GLD-112.

Functionally, the GLD platform has almost the same capabilities as the M7-48 for 1/3 of what the M7 cost new, and in some ways, the GLD does more - WAY more EQ capability on outputs, more effects processing, digital snake, and almost exactly the same input and bus count.

Do do I wish the GLD-80 had a few more faders? Maybe, and I'm contemplating picking up a GLD-112 system so I have that choice, but honestly I've mixed 48 inputs on the GLD with very little inconvenience. The flexible surface where any channel strip can be anything is hugely great, and I find it very simple and quick to setup. I can do it in approximately the same amount of time it takes to label the M7 with board tape. Operating the show is faster on the GLD than the M7.

I like Yamaha gear generally, but I won't be going back anytime soon based on what their current pricing is, and the 1:1 fader thing is as much a disadvantage as it is an advantage.
 
Re: Yamaha TF5 with Rio boxes?

Scott Helmke said:
The thing about the TF is that it's quite a bit different from other Yamaha mixers. I'd even say it's the next generation, and as such is kind of confusing when coming from the M7CL mindset. And there are, in typical Yamaha fashion, deliberate limitations for both marketing and usability reasons. Its a budget mixer, folks.
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This.

I bought a TF3 for personal use because I like it and also see it bringing features that will likely be on the next generation of upper level consoles. The touch screen is well laid out and easy to operate once you have a few minutes to familiarize yourself with it. Between the touch screen with it's iPad like gestures and the Touch and Turn knob, I find myself able to make adjustments faster than I can on any other digital or analog console. To me, the lack of physical controls is not an issue, though it did raise an eyebrow when I first heard about the TF series.
A lot of the limitations are clearly put in place because of Yamaha's positioning and that they don't want to cannibalize sales of their higher level consoles. However, I'm starting to wonder if the luke-warm reception of the consoles in the US may lead to them adding some of those features just to try to make up enough sales to meet their expectations. Though I have heard that it is a lot more popular overseas, so who knows.
I continue to see many people comment about how bad the console is or that they don't like it, yet I also hear from people who, after giving it some real show time, love it and realize how good a console it actually is. I think a lot of that forward thinking, next gen stuff just was too soon for a lot of people.

But it is a budget console...
 
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