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<blockquote data-quote="Phil Lewandowski" data-source="post: 66356" data-attributes="member: 44"><p>Re: You're welcome.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>What was so great about Aquinas' rational arguments for God's existence is it didn't matter if the universe did in fact exist past eternal. Most don't realize that his arguments where based on the here and now. He showed right here and now in this very moment the necessary existence of God outside of space-time. </p><p></p><p>In more technical terms, all motion requires a move from potentiality to actuality. (I have the potentiality to press the 't' key, but it must be actualized.) A potentiality by itself is just that, a potentiality. The potentiality of my pressing the 't' key is actualized by the firing of motor neurons, which depends on other neurons actualizing their potential, which depends on the state of the nervous system, which depends on its current molecular structure, which depends on atomic basis of that molecular structure, which depends on electromagnetism, gravitation, the weak and strong forces, and so on and so forth, all simultaneously, all here and now. As one can see this series must have a definite end, it most definitely cannot extend into infinity as I would not be pressing any key right now. (Or doing anything for that matter, including existing.) Each member of this kind of series, called an essentially ordered series is dependent upon all previous in the series right here and now for their existence. And as we can also gather, the first member of this series must be itself unmoved as if this member was not unmoved, then it itself would be going from a potentiality to an actuality and the series would continue on at least one more. Also obvious from this is that nothing within space-time can be this unmoved mover as everything is going through some sort of change at some point. (To be within a physical universe itself requires this.) We can also then see why this argument gets it name as unmoved mover.</p><p></p><p></p><p>As opposed to some earlier, these discussions are not in vain and can come to objective truth. Relativism in our culture has become so rampant and it is quite a shame because as it is said, the truth will set one free. Freedom without any knowledge of the true or the good is just blind decisions made for the sake of being able to make choices. True freedom is the use of intellect, to come to know the good, and will, to choose the good. It takes a great amount of humility to come to true knowledge, and that is why I find the two quotes in my signature right now to be dead on. Many times people simply get frustrated or too emotionally involved to think clearly. It has taken myself some practice to simply witness to what I believe to be the objective truth I have come to and to take a step back and look at things as objectively as possible.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Take Care,</p><p>Phil</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Phil Lewandowski, post: 66356, member: 44"] Re: You're welcome. What was so great about Aquinas' rational arguments for God's existence is it didn't matter if the universe did in fact exist past eternal. Most don't realize that his arguments where based on the here and now. He showed right here and now in this very moment the necessary existence of God outside of space-time. In more technical terms, all motion requires a move from potentiality to actuality. (I have the potentiality to press the 't' key, but it must be actualized.) A potentiality by itself is just that, a potentiality. The potentiality of my pressing the 't' key is actualized by the firing of motor neurons, which depends on other neurons actualizing their potential, which depends on the state of the nervous system, which depends on its current molecular structure, which depends on atomic basis of that molecular structure, which depends on electromagnetism, gravitation, the weak and strong forces, and so on and so forth, all simultaneously, all here and now. As one can see this series must have a definite end, it most definitely cannot extend into infinity as I would not be pressing any key right now. (Or doing anything for that matter, including existing.) Each member of this kind of series, called an essentially ordered series is dependent upon all previous in the series right here and now for their existence. And as we can also gather, the first member of this series must be itself unmoved as if this member was not unmoved, then it itself would be going from a potentiality to an actuality and the series would continue on at least one more. Also obvious from this is that nothing within space-time can be this unmoved mover as everything is going through some sort of change at some point. (To be within a physical universe itself requires this.) We can also then see why this argument gets it name as unmoved mover. As opposed to some earlier, these discussions are not in vain and can come to objective truth. Relativism in our culture has become so rampant and it is quite a shame because as it is said, the truth will set one free. Freedom without any knowledge of the true or the good is just blind decisions made for the sake of being able to make choices. True freedom is the use of intellect, to come to know the good, and will, to choose the good. It takes a great amount of humility to come to true knowledge, and that is why I find the two quotes in my signature right now to be dead on. Many times people simply get frustrated or too emotionally involved to think clearly. It has taken myself some practice to simply witness to what I believe to be the objective truth I have come to and to take a step back and look at things as objectively as possible. Take Care, Phil [/QUOTE]
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