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<blockquote data-quote="Phil Lewandowski" data-source="post: 66454" data-attributes="member: 44"><p>Re: You're welcome.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That is very interesting and something I had not heard before. I could see reason for why that would be the case, since philosophy done well is formed around solid rational and logical arguments and that if one does that, there are only a few ultimate conclusions on first causes that one could come too. The thing is that even if one has the most rational arguments, coming to actually believe in a God, that is creator of all, is much more than simply seeing that there are good reasons to believe in one. Although I have known a handful that did come from a professed atheistic background to Christianity on intellectual grounds. (The author, Edward Feser, that I mentioned above being one.) In other words, it may take a combination of intellectual grounds and a more "Augustinian" approach where one makes the assent through the acknowledgment of an innate desire for The true, The good, and The beautiful that cannot be completely fulfilled by this physical world.</p><p></p><p>I find this with music (see found a way to make it relevant to a audio forum <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /> ) in that when I hear a great piece of music and the beauty that it contains I can tend to think for a moment, sometimes longer, that this is the most beautiful piece of music that I have ever heard and ever will. In a sense we become infatuated with its beauty. But after a while it lets of down and its loses much of it luster, though true beauty will never fade. We may do this over and over again until we come to realize that we are yearning for beauty itself. If we could simply find beauty itself and stand in its presence we would need nothing else. An infinite source of beauty. Then one comes to the realization that beauty itself cannot be found in this physical world, nothing will "fill-up" that void completely. We yearn for an infinite beauty and for some reason we have been stuck in a physical world where it is impossible to stand in the presence of infinite beauty. We then realize what a great internal tension that stands before us.</p><p></p><p>----</p><p></p><p>The thing that ultimately got me into studying philosophy was how one could start with premises based upon the things that we deal with every day in the physical world around us and then move through a metaphysical argument to a real truth about the world around us, and reality as a whole. That just simply fascinates me. And once one realizes that truth cannot contradict truth--that all studies, sciences, and such cannot ultimately contradict each other--the thirst for truth simply continues to grow as it can never be satisfied in this life.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Take Care,</p><p>Phil</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Phil Lewandowski, post: 66454, member: 44"] Re: You're welcome. That is very interesting and something I had not heard before. I could see reason for why that would be the case, since philosophy done well is formed around solid rational and logical arguments and that if one does that, there are only a few ultimate conclusions on first causes that one could come too. The thing is that even if one has the most rational arguments, coming to actually believe in a God, that is creator of all, is much more than simply seeing that there are good reasons to believe in one. Although I have known a handful that did come from a professed atheistic background to Christianity on intellectual grounds. (The author, Edward Feser, that I mentioned above being one.) In other words, it may take a combination of intellectual grounds and a more "Augustinian" approach where one makes the assent through the acknowledgment of an innate desire for The true, The good, and The beautiful that cannot be completely fulfilled by this physical world. I find this with music (see found a way to make it relevant to a audio forum ;) ) in that when I hear a great piece of music and the beauty that it contains I can tend to think for a moment, sometimes longer, that this is the most beautiful piece of music that I have ever heard and ever will. In a sense we become infatuated with its beauty. But after a while it lets of down and its loses much of it luster, though true beauty will never fade. We may do this over and over again until we come to realize that we are yearning for beauty itself. If we could simply find beauty itself and stand in its presence we would need nothing else. An infinite source of beauty. Then one comes to the realization that beauty itself cannot be found in this physical world, nothing will "fill-up" that void completely. We yearn for an infinite beauty and for some reason we have been stuck in a physical world where it is impossible to stand in the presence of infinite beauty. We then realize what a great internal tension that stands before us. ---- The thing that ultimately got me into studying philosophy was how one could start with premises based upon the things that we deal with every day in the physical world around us and then move through a metaphysical argument to a real truth about the world around us, and reality as a whole. That just simply fascinates me. And once one realizes that truth cannot contradict truth--that all studies, sciences, and such cannot ultimately contradict each other--the thirst for truth simply continues to grow as it can never be satisfied in this life. Take Care, Phil [/QUOTE]
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