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<blockquote data-quote="Phil Lewandowski" data-source="post: 66624" data-attributes="member: 44"><p>Re: You're welcome.</p><p></p><p>Hi Per,</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>We come to realize that the laws simply state and explain what is. They do nothing to study the actual being of the object. That is why it is absurd to say that laws as such can have any sort of casual powers on anything. The laws don't do anything, they simply explain what is taking place. It is the actual existence of the beings that actually have the casual powers to act of other beings.</p><p></p><p>And example of this is simply the law of gravity and 2 large objects. (Say a planet and the sun.) Is it specifically because of the law itself, the law of gravity, that the planet is orbiting around the sun? Of course not, it is because the 2 objects, by their very nature, have these casual powers and react in a certain way that we explain as "the law of gravity." In other words, the law of gravity cannot exist apart from actual real beings. If their was no physical universe there would be nothing to explain using the law of gravity.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You have hit the head on the nail right here. All studies and sciences presuppose this, as it isn't their job to ask whether there is actually a reality and being to study and if it is actually intelligible. (As I saw posted above, someone linked to a video that said something about relaity simply being some virtual reality or brain-in-a-vat type situation.)</p><p></p><p>That is why metaphysics had been called "first science." This is because metaphysics is the ground upon which all other sciences can actually make sense to be actually taking part in. This does not mean that metaphysics is somehow better than those sciences as they each study different things. That is why there is an issue when someone like Stephen Hawking in his most recent work, "The Grand Design" tried to do philosophy using physics. (And most recently with theoretical physicist Sean Carroll.) They are both brilliant physicists but not while trying to do philosophy. It is as wrong as trying to do physics by using philosophy. They are both valid ways of studying the universe but they are studying different things. But again that can't mean that there can be any true contradictions between the two.</p><p></p><p>The big distinction is that the sciences study specific parts of being, where metaphysics studies being as being itself. That is why it is the ground for all other studies and sciences since they presuppose being and its intelligibility. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>And that is exactly what philosophy saves us from! It saves us from falling into that intellectual black hole. It can guarantee that it makes sense to be studying physics, biology, etc. Unfortunately a great amount of modern philosophy has started to want to drag us into that black hole, but if one takes up a modern Aristotelian/Thomistic metaphysics the day can be saved. (Which is starting to be realized in our day when people realize the dark hole that Descartes and Hume were leading us too.)</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I agree, that is why it can be so important to have these sorts of discussions so that others may be able to point out obvious reasoning problems. Luckily Aristotelian metaphysics has had over 2000 years to develop so the basic truths are pretty well understood and established, especially within a Thomistic metaphysics. (While that doesn't mean that there still isn't much to do.)</p><p></p><p>I find that having a sort of "prayerful attitude" toward doing this type of work is helpful so that one can actually see reality as it is presented to us, not as we wish to see it.</p><p></p><p>I apologize for the long reply, but we are getting into some good stuff here!</p><p></p><p>Take Care!</p><p>Phil</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Phil Lewandowski, post: 66624, member: 44"] Re: You're welcome. Hi Per, We come to realize that the laws simply state and explain what is. They do nothing to study the actual being of the object. That is why it is absurd to say that laws as such can have any sort of casual powers on anything. The laws don't do anything, they simply explain what is taking place. It is the actual existence of the beings that actually have the casual powers to act of other beings. And example of this is simply the law of gravity and 2 large objects. (Say a planet and the sun.) Is it specifically because of the law itself, the law of gravity, that the planet is orbiting around the sun? Of course not, it is because the 2 objects, by their very nature, have these casual powers and react in a certain way that we explain as "the law of gravity." In other words, the law of gravity cannot exist apart from actual real beings. If their was no physical universe there would be nothing to explain using the law of gravity. You have hit the head on the nail right here. All studies and sciences presuppose this, as it isn't their job to ask whether there is actually a reality and being to study and if it is actually intelligible. (As I saw posted above, someone linked to a video that said something about relaity simply being some virtual reality or brain-in-a-vat type situation.) That is why metaphysics had been called "first science." This is because metaphysics is the ground upon which all other sciences can actually make sense to be actually taking part in. This does not mean that metaphysics is somehow better than those sciences as they each study different things. That is why there is an issue when someone like Stephen Hawking in his most recent work, "The Grand Design" tried to do philosophy using physics. (And most recently with theoretical physicist Sean Carroll.) They are both brilliant physicists but not while trying to do philosophy. It is as wrong as trying to do physics by using philosophy. They are both valid ways of studying the universe but they are studying different things. But again that can't mean that there can be any true contradictions between the two. The big distinction is that the sciences study specific parts of being, where metaphysics studies being as being itself. That is why it is the ground for all other studies and sciences since they presuppose being and its intelligibility. And that is exactly what philosophy saves us from! It saves us from falling into that intellectual black hole. It can guarantee that it makes sense to be studying physics, biology, etc. Unfortunately a great amount of modern philosophy has started to want to drag us into that black hole, but if one takes up a modern Aristotelian/Thomistic metaphysics the day can be saved. (Which is starting to be realized in our day when people realize the dark hole that Descartes and Hume were leading us too.) I agree, that is why it can be so important to have these sorts of discussions so that others may be able to point out obvious reasoning problems. Luckily Aristotelian metaphysics has had over 2000 years to develop so the basic truths are pretty well understood and established, especially within a Thomistic metaphysics. (While that doesn't mean that there still isn't much to do.) I find that having a sort of "prayerful attitude" toward doing this type of work is helpful so that one can actually see reality as it is presented to us, not as we wish to see it. I apologize for the long reply, but we are getting into some good stuff here! Take Care! Phil [/QUOTE]
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