When you get the often heard, ''It's too loud.'' complaint, what do you turn down? Masters or channel faders or something else?
When it's too loud.....
- Thread starter Jamin Lynch
- Start date
Re: When it's too loud.....
It depends on who's saying it, and who I'm working for. Mother of the bride? Promoter? CEO? Punters?
It depends on who's saying it, and who I'm working for. Mother of the bride? Promoter? CEO? Punters?
Silas Pradetto
Graduate Student
Re: When it's too loud.....
It depends. If it's actually too loud, as in, louder than you're comfortable with/the venue demands/the boss told you to turn it down, then I'd turn it down as much as I could while keeping the stage wash in balance. In many cases, ultimate ''quiet'' level is going to be determined by the drums.
If it's not actually too loud, and the person telling you to turn it down is some old lady sitting in front of the stack, I'd kindly ask her to move, or pretend to turn something down until they say ''OK, thank you''.
Whatever you have to do to keep them happy, do it, even if they're a random crowd member; you never know who will hire you for your next gig.
It depends. If it's actually too loud, as in, louder than you're comfortable with/the venue demands/the boss told you to turn it down, then I'd turn it down as much as I could while keeping the stage wash in balance. In many cases, ultimate ''quiet'' level is going to be determined by the drums.
If it's not actually too loud, and the person telling you to turn it down is some old lady sitting in front of the stack, I'd kindly ask her to move, or pretend to turn something down until they say ''OK, thank you''.
Whatever you have to do to keep them happy, do it, even if they're a random crowd member; you never know who will hire you for your next gig.
Re: When it's too loud.....
Sure, I got that part.
I'm talking about if the stage volume is loud but under control, and it's the PA that is really too loud for the venue.
Sure, I got that part.
I'm talking about if the stage volume is loud but under control, and it's the PA that is really too loud for the venue.
Silas Pradetto
Graduate Student
Re: When it's too loud.....
Agree - It depends ( I've done the ''pretend'' or temporary pull-down as well
).
The last time I heard ITL; It was being used arbitrarily - The music favored by the complainer was fine - anything else was too loud ( unfortunately as part of the paying committee, he had influence )
Agree - It depends ( I've done the ''pretend'' or temporary pull-down as well
The last time I heard ITL; It was being used arbitrarily - The music favored by the complainer was fine - anything else was too loud ( unfortunately as part of the paying committee, he had influence )
Silas Pradetto
Graduate Student
Re: When it's too loud.....
Well, provided you're mixing something, you can't just kill the master fader, because chances are there is some component of stage wash in your mix. As stated, you can lower the mix (keeping your mix together) only so far until the stage wash takes over.
So, turn everything down. Depending how you mix, you could do it with subgroups or channel faders. Almost never the master fader, unless you're so far above the wash that it won't matter.
Hope I got it this time!
Well, provided you're mixing something, you can't just kill the master fader, because chances are there is some component of stage wash in your mix. As stated, you can lower the mix (keeping your mix together) only so far until the stage wash takes over.
So, turn everything down. Depending how you mix, you could do it with subgroups or channel faders. Almost never the master fader, unless you're so far above the wash that it won't matter.
Hope I got it this time!
Re: When it's too loud.....
Yep. Too loud is a relative term. It all depends on whose relatives are telling you to turn it down.......
Yep. Too loud is a relative term. It all depends on whose relatives are telling you to turn it down.......
Re: When it's too loud.....
Sorry, I guess I could have made my question a little more clear.
If you're mixing a band and everything is crusing along OK, sound is good, kick is kicking, vocals are on top, instruments are there, but it's just too loud for the place. Would you typicaly lower the masters to get the proper volume or bring down some/all the channel faders?
I seem to loose the ''quality'' of the sound when I bring down the channel faders. If I bring down the masters I find myself having to push the indiviual channels faders too high for lead solos or to get the vocals where they need to be.
Thanks
Sorry, I guess I could have made my question a little more clear.
If you're mixing a band and everything is crusing along OK, sound is good, kick is kicking, vocals are on top, instruments are there, but it's just too loud for the place. Would you typicaly lower the masters to get the proper volume or bring down some/all the channel faders?
I seem to loose the ''quality'' of the sound when I bring down the channel faders. If I bring down the masters I find myself having to push the indiviual channels faders too high for lead solos or to get the vocals where they need to be.
Thanks
Re: When it's too loud.....
I think you need to fly a bunch of us in to do an on-site evaluation. This weekend would be good for me as it is supposed to be below zero here........
I think you need to fly a bunch of us in to do an on-site evaluation. This weekend would be good for me as it is supposed to be below zero here........
Re: When it's too loud.....
I lower the groups in that case.
I have my group levels adjusted to keep my channel faders in the range I need them for the dynamics issues you mention.
I lower the groups in that case.
I have my group levels adjusted to keep my channel faders in the range I need them for the dynamics issues you mention.
Re: When it's too loud.....
Those are my favorite antics.
Those are my favorite antics.
Re: When it's too loud.....
I was going to wear shorts when I played golf yesterday, but I didn't want to scare the ladies.
Those are my favorite antics.
I was going to wear shorts when I played golf yesterday, but I didn't want to scare the ladies.
Re: When it's too loud.....
Leaving aside PA vs backline, gain is gain. It doesn't matter whether you bring down channels, groups, or masters. I think part of getting a good gain structure for a show is being able to move the faders through their ranges. That is why they put them there.
Part of what I do during soundcheck is see where various levels are on the board so I have an idea of where most of the show will be, where the push at the end will be, and where I have extra if I need it.
Leaving aside PA vs backline, gain is gain. It doesn't matter whether you bring down channels, groups, or masters. I think part of getting a good gain structure for a show is being able to move the faders through their ranges. That is why they put them there.
Part of what I do during soundcheck is see where various levels are on the board so I have an idea of where most of the show will be, where the push at the end will be, and where I have extra if I need it.
Re: When it's too loud.....
If stage wash is not a concern, I'll just pull the master back a bit.
If stage was is a concern, I'll start dropping individual instruments back a little.
Evan
If stage wash is not a concern, I'll just pull the master back a bit.
If stage was is a concern, I'll start dropping individual instruments back a little.
Evan
Re: When it's too loud.....
Depends on the situation.
As written here before, it depends on the stage and some other circumstances.
When there is some time to reach the lower level (means: no police officer with handcuffs or a person directly paying me with steam out of the ears):
mixing backwards, identifying what may be giving the mix its edge (percieved as ''too loud''), turning this channel down or turning the EQ band down. Sometimes it's some range in the master EQ that can go down a bit.
Otherwise:
- pulling the master fader down significantly and mixing forward after that, bringing up mix elements that are lacking after this.
or
- pulling down groups or faders of instruments that are loud on stage already, reverting to a more ''stage dependent'' mix.
Either way, in most cases the mix has to be ''found'' again after or within the change.
Depends on the situation.
As written here before, it depends on the stage and some other circumstances.
When there is some time to reach the lower level (means: no police officer with handcuffs or a person directly paying me with steam out of the ears):
mixing backwards, identifying what may be giving the mix its edge (percieved as ''too loud''), turning this channel down or turning the EQ band down. Sometimes it's some range in the master EQ that can go down a bit.
Otherwise:
- pulling the master fader down significantly and mixing forward after that, bringing up mix elements that are lacking after this.
or
- pulling down groups or faders of instruments that are loud on stage already, reverting to a more ''stage dependent'' mix.
Either way, in most cases the mix has to be ''found'' again after or within the change.
Re: When it's too loud.....
I do the same as Evan, and typically start the show at a level thats comfortable for the room patrons and owner, and bring it up as the night progresses. I always respond professionally to client requests. And I agree with Christians last line about finding the mix when adjustments have been made.
I do the same as Evan, and typically start the show at a level thats comfortable for the room patrons and owner, and bring it up as the night progresses. I always respond professionally to client requests. And I agree with Christians last line about finding the mix when adjustments have been made.
Re: When it's too loud.....Trading places
You can tell them ''Would you mind trading places with the gentleman over there who says it not loud enough'' That way everybody is happy
You can tell them ''Would you mind trading places with the gentleman over there who says it not loud enough'' That way everybody is happy