More Danley impressiveness

John Halliburton

John Halliburton

Junior
Jan 10, 2011
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The city with big shoulders
I am kind of surprised these two video clips haven't shown up here yet. Tony Neve posted them on his Facebook wall a couple of days ago. I find this very impressive, in spite of drinking the kool aid many years ago, and hearing comparisons like this many times.

I also noticed that the Jericho was producing more bass output, but the thing to listen for is the even coverage, along with the comment on the amount of electrical power needed for each.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDtS28YPTn8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDZ89wz8OrM

So, perhaps we've finally hit the point where two tops over two subs can cover an arena show...just think of the logistics savings alone.

Best regards,

John
 
Re: More Danley impressiveness

John Halliburton said:
I am kind of surprised these two video clips haven't shown up here yet. Tony Neve posted them on his Facebook wall a couple of days ago. I find this very impressive, in spite of drinking the kool aid many years ago, and hearing comparisons like this many times.

I also noticed that the Jericho was producing more bass output, but the thing to listen for is the even coverage, along with the comment on the amount of electrical power needed for each.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDtS28YPTn8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDZ89wz8OrM

So, perhaps we've finally hit the point where two tops over two subs can cover an arena show...just think of the logistics savings alone.

Best regards,

John
Click to expand...

There were 3 amplifiers powering the entire PA. Each sub had a single amp mono bridged into it-and the other amp (2 channel) was powering the full range J2's. One amp channel per side 2200 watts-although the J2's can "take" quite a bit more. 2 DSP channels. Subs and mains.
 
Re: More Danley impressiveness

Ivan Beaver said:
There were 3 amplifiers powering the entire PA. Each sub had a single amp mono bridged into it-and the other amp (2 channel) was powering the full range J2's. One amp channel per side 2200 watts-although the J2's can "take" quite a bit more. 2 DSP channels. Subs and mains.
Click to expand...

I guess the interesting question then would be: how loud will the J2 system go with the provided amplifier power? Also, did you do any efficiency/max SPL comparisions during this demo?

No doubt they can accept a lot more power....2-3X more I'd suspect, easy.

Best regards,

John
 
Re: More Danley impressiveness

Consistent coverage with a line array depends equally on the product and its setup. The Danley product (which is no doubt excellent) is fixed coverage and therefore likely done right, whether or not the line array was as painstakingly set up is impossible to tell. All it takes is too few boxes for the coverage required and any line array product will exhibit such lobing.

I have no idea who set those systems up. Perhaps I am just bad at product demos because I am too analytical.
 
Re: More Danley impressiveness

John Halliburton said:
I guess the interesting question then would be: how loud will the J2 system go with the provided amplifier power? Also, did you do any efficiency/max SPL comparisions during this demo?

No doubt they can accept a lot more power....2-3X more I'd suspect, easy.

Best regards,

John
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I have just edited this post-because I did a bad thing and did not actually look at the posted link.

Since the J2 was mentioned-I thought it was a different set of videos (about the new J2 at an outdoor concert Fri night)
 
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Re: More Danley impressiveness

Bennett Prescott said:
Consistent coverage with a line array depends equally on the product and its setup. The Danley product (which is no doubt excellent) is fixed coverage and therefore likely done right, whether or not the line array was as painstakingly set up is impossible to tell. All it takes is too few boxes for the coverage required and any line array product will exhibit such lobing.

I have no idea who set those systems up. Perhaps I am just bad at product demos because I am too analytical.
Click to expand...

Agreed, We have no idea how the system was setup, aimed or tuned.
The great thing about the danley is that it is set but we have no way of knowing what they did to the Meyer

db
 
Re: More Danley impressiveness

Dan Brown said:
Agreed, We have no idea how the system was setup, aimed or tuned.
The great thing about the danley is that it is set but we have no way of knowing what they did to the Meyer

db
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The Meyer rig was what was suggested by Meyer for the room. As far as alignment-it was the Meyer processor setup by whoever brought the system in.

We just did a couple of quick adjustments on the Danley (no "alignment" per say) to reduce the low freq in the room. It was a bit overpowering.
 
Re: More Danley impressiveness

Judging from the youtube video, and the picture in Live Sound International, June 2011, pg. 19, I would estimate the long vertical slot in the Jericho2 to be about 4' tall. That would make it a line source in my book, not a point source. No doubt it has some vertical curvature to the HF waveform to achieve vertical dispersion. It would be hard to get the HF output from 12 drivers to all go through a small circular throat. Didn't Danley swear to never do a line source?

Just tryin' to start an interesting conversation...
 
Re: More Danley impressiveness

Jon,

Troublemaker! I think the real secret is that the difference between a line source and a point source isn't that great. It's all the same to the air, it's just how the individual boxes are set up to array. How many companies are there that have really never done anything like a line source? Funktion One? Bill Fitzmaurice?
 
Re: More Danley impressiveness

Jon Waller said:
Judging from the youtube video, and the picture in Live Sound International, June 2011, pg. 19, I would estimate the long vertical slot in the Jericho2 to be about 4' tall. That would make it a line source in my book, not a point source. No doubt it has some vertical curvature to the HF waveform to achieve vertical dispersion. It would be hard to get the HF output from 12 drivers to all go through a small circular throat. Didn't Danley swear to never do a line source?

Just tryin' to start an interesting conversation...
Click to expand...

You are correct about the length. But you also have to remember that the actual acoustic origion is well behind the cabinet.

A line source is one thing-a line array is quite another. This is neither- per say-kinda.

A "line" has a narrow vertical dispertion. This is 60° tall and 90° wide.

The slot is simply an expansion point that "enters" the main horn. It has already begun the expansion by the time it gets to the "slot".

Here is a link to an event we did a couple of weeks ago. It is 1 J2 per side and 1 sub (TH812) per side. 3 amplifiers total for the PA (Danley 6.5K's) ;loafing along

http://www.facebook.com/DanleySound...?v=1907028809515&oid=126113687424773&comments
 
Re: More Danley impressiveness

Jon Waller said:
Judging from the youtube video, and the picture in Live Sound International, June 2011, pg. 19, I would estimate the long vertical slot in the Jericho2 to be about 4' tall. That would make it a line source in my book, not a point source. No doubt it has some vertical curvature to the HF waveform to achieve vertical dispersion. It would be hard to get the HF output from 12 drivers to all go through a small circular throat. Didn't Danley swear to never do a line source?

Just tryin' to start an interesting conversation...
Click to expand...

Think about a really big horn with a 3-4 foot tall diffraction slot. Is the diffraction slot a line source? Maybe, maybe not. It's the geometry, or more specifically the wavefront expansion, that is occurring behind the diffraction slot that dictates whether or not its a line source. Although I'm not familiar with the inner workings of the Jericho 2, I think the same can be said for it. Just because it might look like a line, doesn't make it a line.
 
Re: More Danley impressiveness

I like how the J2 looks kind of like a 70's rehearsal PA from Fender or something. Maybe you should offer a leather version :)On a serious note. When you have a clear overview of what the exact weight of this thing will be, I'd be very interested to know. Also do you know the weight of the DBH218LC?Always planning purchases ahead and right now there's calculations to be done regarding a truck purchase.
 
Re: More Danley impressiveness

Frederik Rosenkjær said:
I like how the J2 looks kind of like a 70's rehearsal PA from Fender or something. Maybe you should offer a leather version :)On a serious note. When you have a clear overview of what the exact weight of this thing will be, I'd be very interested to know. Also do you know the weight of the DBH218LC?Always planning purchases ahead and right now there's calculations to be done regarding a truck purchase.
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It looks like the weight of the J2 is going to go up.

The reason is the Chinese and the whole neo issue. We are looking at changing to ceramic woofers, which will add weight. Due to availablility and price. That is still "in the works".

Some of the neo woofers we use ahve gone up 300% over the last couple of months, and others are on a "daily price" type thing.
It is getting crazy. If it doesn't change-a lot of products are going to be affected-by all manufacturers.

Off hand I don't know the weight of the DBH218LC. It is a fair bit more than the DBH218. And if we change drivers in it (the whole neo thing again) it will go up maybe another 30-40lbs or so.
 
Re: More Danley impressiveness

We recently got the latest JH-90 processor settings from Danley... the traces below are just from the beast sitting in the shop with the test mic about 3 feet away and a bit below center (on-axis for the asymmetric horn). Even seen a phase trace like that for a 4-way loudspeaker capable of mass destruction?
 

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Re: More Danley impressiveness

Scott Helmke said:
We recently got the latest JH-90 processor settings from Danley... the traces below are just from the beast sitting in the shop with the test mic about 3 feet away and a bit below center (on-axis for the asymmetric horn). Even seen a phase trace like that for a 4-way loudspeaker capable of mass destruction?
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Thanks. It took me a good while to get that alignment. Not a 10 minute job. HA-HA. And I wasn't under the pressure of a gig starting :).

BTW there are no "special filters". Just normal EQ filters, normal high and low pass filters and delay as you would find on any DSP. However as Bennett has noted, the numbers don't always transfer to other brands of DSP. So it is ESSENTIAL to copy the transfer function if a different DSP is to be used.

Now the way some of the filters are used may not be "normal", but that is what is required to get the phase correct, which is more important than the amplitude response.
 
Re: More Danley impressiveness

Ivan Beaver said:
Thanks. It took me a good while to get that alignment. Not a 10 minute job. HA-HA. And I wasn't under the pressure of a gig starting :).BTW there are no "special filters". Just normal EQ filters, normal high and low pass filters and delay as you would find on any DSP. However as Bennett has noted, the numbers don't always transfer to other brands of DSP. So it is ESSENTIAL to copy the transfer function if a different DSP is to be used.Now the way some of the filters are used may not be "normal", but that is what is required to get the phase correct, which is more important than the amplitude response.
Click to expand...
I hope that there will be settings for Lake processing available a little down the road, as Mike said there will be. I just figured out a way to overcome the weight problem, so I'm seriously contemplating buying a pair of J1's maybe next year, and I will have LAB PLM14k's at that time...
 
Re: More Danley impressiveness

Ivan Beaver said:
BTW there are no "special filters". Just normal EQ filters, normal high and low pass filters and delay as you would find on any DSP. However as Bennett has noted, the numbers don't always transfer to other brands of DSP. So it is ESSENTIAL to copy the transfer function if a different DSP is to be used.
Click to expand...

We've been using XTA DP224 processors with our JH90's, so it was my job to translate the settings to that platform. Not trivial, took about 5-6 hours with SMAART and some futzing around. Figuring out a way to use 7 bands of parametric on the high mids when the DP224 only has 5 bands on each output was interesting (use a couple bands on the input side, and then complimentary EQ on the output that had a couple bands free). Ivan says "no special filters", then I find a 30dB/Oct crossover slope on the low mid band. Used a shelf EQ to get that one to line up properly, but it took a while to get there.

Bennett's article about the differences between processor settings certainly applied here. Surprisingly the parametric settings were very nearly identical, but I had to tweak the crossover filter frequencies quite a bit and in one case even use a different slope.

EDIT: Oh yeah - none of that would have been possible if Danley hadn't loaned us a processor in the first place. Class act, those guys.
 
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