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Off hand I don't know any-but I also don't know where all the systems are.okay, i'll bite...
i'm about an hour north of washington D.C. USA. is there any venue in the 1500-2500 range with a danley rig reasonably nearby that i could go listen to? i've heard so much great stuff about the danley stuff that i really just want to hear it for myself. i've been a d&b fanboy for quite some time, but i never want to close my mind to other options....
Now for the real test with music,
Loic’s choice of Sub is Function one’s F221 this box is a double 21 inch design loaded with Eighteen sound most powerful Neo 21 inch driver 21NL9W9600, all powered at twice the R.M.S with Lab Gruppen’s FP+14,000 three boxes per side. My recent pro sub experience was two nights before where I was the pilot for one of our small deployment with eight TH-115 subs therefore my memory is still fresh about qualities below 100 Hz. It takes a while disassociated with them to appreciate the tone of other boxes… Yes, all other subs sound strange to me. This may sound bias to many but this is what it is with me.
STRANGE is just an understatement to describe the tone of Function one’s F221, there seem to be a huge peak of probably over 15 to 20db in the 60-80 Hz area which seem to be dominating everything else from this box, probably Function one has special tunings to tame this thing but we did not have any. I tried cutting back as much as I could but it was still dominating not forgetting the sudden roll of below fifty (50) Hz, I lowered the high pass to 31 Hz with a Butters worth filter, tried to apply some EQ boost between 31 and 50 Hz area for more low end juice but this peak between 50-80 Hz was just not doing us any justice. I am not used to spoon feeding a sub with that much EQ to make it sound good. After phase aligning the sub with the mains as best as I could by ear the peak in frequency response seem to get even louder.
Looking at the box physical size I think the horn path and mouth is just way too short and small to get any low end out of it. A Google search also revealed Function one seem to be popular with high performance D.Js in Europe this reinforced my belief this box has a D.J appeal to it.
The sound engineer disliked the sub so much he ended up using very little to almost turning them off completely for the duration of the concert a clear indication how nasty sounding they were.
I am not convinced yet about the 21 inch horn sub designs out there these things move a lot of air but they seem to color the sound in their own way either by pure harmonic distortion or box resonance noise etc. As far as I am concerned the present designs I have heard are not suited for live sound. I have heard a few of them both D.J types (Cervin Vega etc) and a few suppose to be pro others (EAW SB20001 etc). I think better results can be achieved by running them in infra mode but that is a discussion for another day.
Loic you need to get real subs man, you already have a taste for quality mains I hope this will translate to better taste below 100 Hz. The crossing over from smooth sweet sounding low mid to sudden brut none musical lows is just not doing any justice to the J2 man, well in this venue; this extremely loud noisy 60-80 Hz peak seem to distracting everything else quite a bit. The wow factor of present day live sound reinforcement is also heavily dependent on properly well defined low end. My experience with quality low end is people always ask to turn it up more not turn it down.
The Danley Jericho 2 is made to sound right without much or any external EQ and this was the case in Festival Village, a small high end, High mid shelf was all that was applied probably because of the Class D nature of the Powersoft amps.
After sound check we had an hour of free time to play with before show time, I played some of my favorite tuning tracks with the subs muted, drove the rig to be loud enough with a few runs to the amplifier rack monitoring their behavior. Loic when you are not the pilot you should never run you rig without limiters it will cost you man…. The stereo imaging reminds me of Nexo’s GEOT, exciting and musical Nexo has a competitor now.
The J2 loudness is not the ear hurting type but a smooth easy on the ears loudness it was only when I tried to keep a conversation I realize how loud this thing was, I was left to believe one can easily lose their hearing in front of this boxes and not being conscious of it.
The promoter walked up to us and said there is not one location in the venue where he cannot hear clean, detailed and sweet loud full range audio, even way off on the sides modern day technology is just amazing he said shaking his head. The sound engineer was just as impressed, he spoke through a mike smiles on his face, as long as you can get a mike to sound like this with your console EQ flat your mains are good.
After we settled down with the show running smoothly I walked around the venue to verify his claim about the off-axis response, he was right there was not one location in the venue missing perfect full range coverage, I was left to believe the Danley guys seem to have made an error about the horizontal dispersion capability of this box it seem to be more of a 125-145 or more degree box than 90. I went outside of the venue the guys at the gate commented, man we have never heard it like this on the outside for other shows.
But the biggest supprise for the night was how efficient the box was, let me be clear the system was not being run loud during the concert, well how loud it was the best I can explain is up front to about fifty to seventy feet back one would have to raise their voices close to the ears of whoever they are talking too to keep a conversation, but looking at the behavior of the amps there was just occasional flashes on the first output LED of the amps. High Sensitivity seems to be one of its strengths.The onboard DSP of the powersoft amps allows one to monitor the loudspeaker connected, we were doing about 90 watts to the high frequency drivers on average and 125 watts to the mids per box. I was left to believe the box can easily be powered with a four channel professional amplifier for an extremly loud concert.
Quality well behave speakers do make a difference, Tom was asked to challenge the popular Line array and he did, the box does all of what a line array does but better and more. The rumor on the street about its capabilities is true, you just have to audition a demo or attend a concert where it is being used and you will be converted.
Franz Francis
You can contact your local rep or the main Danley office to arrange demos.I'd like to hear the J horns sometime. I just need more than 2 days notice of the demos.
We'd be "tire-kicking" at this point, but we're replacing our 40 unit trap box rig when we finish off the VerTec rig (probably by May).
But until we're ready to open the check book, I don't usually ask for demo units to be delivered... I try to catch public demonstrations or installation evaluations to winnow the list of contenders. Oh, and we bought the first round of VerTec w/o a demo, based on me & my boss using it as BEs and my working with it as an IATSE hand. It had the right combination of price, delivery and terms, too.
It was hard to be taken seriously when we were ready to spend $300k; hell, it was hard for my buddy Mickey Morgan @ ProFormance in Emoryville to be taken seriously when he had $1million to spend (Bink & Grandpa Lee probably remember Mickey). Some manufacturers and/or reps aren't very good and picking up the cues that a customer is ready (they overlook the open checkbook) and others create inexplicable barriers. Mickey said "I never knew it would be so hard to spend a million bucks."
Enough of this. Ivan, let me know when you've got other public demos, I'll try to be there.
It was hard to be taken seriously when we were ready to spend $300k; Some manufacturers and/or reps aren't very good and picking up the cues that a customer is ready and others create inexplicable barriers. Mickey said "I never knew it would be so hard to spend a million bucks."
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We had one customer who came down and spent a couple of days with us. When they were gone, we ALL said-we will never hear from those guys again. But now they are big fans of the products.
You never can tell who a potential customer might be.
Hello Franz,
Why do a post about the Jericho, and spend more time whining about the subs than getting down to the OT.
Subs are overrated.
I think a lot of people (and yes I used to be in that crowd many years ago-I drooled over a 27" sub that I was thinking abou t buying-glad I didn't) simply think that bigger is better-and has more bass.And yes I am still not impress with the sudden popularity of the 21 inch designs I have heard.
Franz
Yup, Older whisky, more money, faster cars, younger women, and bigger woofers, pretty much universal wants.
I recall back in the day, consulting for Rudy Bozak. He had this huge ass loudspeaker hanging from a chain hoist out in his factory. It must have been 30" across or so. IIRC the story was it was from some old World's fair exhibit where Bozak made a big splash and provided a lot of speakers used in the fair sound systems. It must have been a huge electromagnet hanging off the back, but it looked like a lot more than a one man lift..
I don't think I ever asked him about it specifically tho... I was not working with him in connection with his speakers.
JR
For the "youngsters" out there, EV made a 30" driver several decades ago. It handled 100 watts I think. In a large cabinet it supposidly went low. I remember seeing one in a store window in a mall years ago.
It looked really cool. Started the Lust.
I remember seeing one in a house mounted in the floor and the basement was the cabinet.I remember back some 30 plus years ago (closer to 35) as a budding young sound guy sending off to EV for a packet of speaker plans for their then current components of the day. The 30W woofer was among the plans, there were a couple different options for the 30W. If I remember right some of the 30W cabinets were at least 70 cubic feet in size and some tunings down in the 15hz range. I'll dig those plans out for a little nostalgia. EV made at least one model of a corner design home speaker that used the 30W called the Patrician.
Jack I am reading from your post you take it to believe my review was more sided toward the Jericho2 box.
Franz
I think a lot of people (and yes I used to be in that crowd many years ago-I drooled over a 27" sub that I was thinking abou t buying-glad I didn't) simply think that bigger is better-and has more bass.
The funny thing (to me anyway) is that for a lot of the 21" subs that are out in the pro world-they really don't go that low-which is the whole idea-right?
They put a large driver in a small box, and guess what? you can't tune it very low.
But in many things audio, a lot of purchases are based on "glitter", rather than the real content/quality of the gear.
A 21" HAS to be better than 18" or 15" driver-right?
The funny thing is that in the Danley lineup-the subs that go the lowest use the smallest drivers (8" and 12"). Our dual 21" does go low and loud-but it is also in a large cabinet-which allows for proper tuning to get low.
Old Hill Audio systems used 10" drivers for bass also. Just a lot of them.A lot of people are surprised when they hear that HK Audio's top lines (Cohedra and Cohedra Compact) both use 10s in the subs. And from what I hear it works just fine!