Value Wireless Mic system for Community Theater (AT3000 or EW100, etc)

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Phil Lewandowski

Sophomore
Jan 11, 2011
123
0
16
Cleveland, OH
Hey All,

The theater where I do sound at just got a $5000 grant to start replacing their wireless body mic systems and was looking for a value unit.

I talked to a friend of mine who recommended the AT3000 series, and I remember working with them a while ago and did like them. I can get them for about $300 a piece.


The other unit I was curious about is the Sennheiser EW100 series (EW172). Because I own the G2 EW100 handheld wireless and love it. It runs about $420.

So I was curious if you guys would recommend one over the other for any reasons. Or if there is another unit in the similiar price range that is an even better value.

----

We are also planning on getting Countryman B3 elements for the mic we choose, so if there is a different element in the $100-$200 range you would recommend, bring it on :)


Thanks for your help,
Phil
 
Re: Value Wireless Mic system for Community Theater (AT3000 or EW100, etc)

First thing I'd do is check out what frequencies will work the best in your location and then see if either of your choices have units that can accommodate you. If you are running in Cleveland then your "safe harbor" channels are 32 (578-584 MHz) and 39 (620-626 Mhz) and you will likely have the fewest problems running on these frequencies with UHF TV band wireless. How many channels will you be running together? That will impact your decision as well.
 
Re: Value Wireless Mic system for Community Theater (AT3000 or EW100, etc)

Thanks Don for the reply,

We will be starting off be purchasing 5-6 and probably up to 10ish in the future.

Also the big worry right now with the EW100, is that I have heard some reports that the 1/8" connector on the body pack isn't as durable as the AT or shure which is important in community theater situation.

Thanks also for the tip on the safe frequencies in the Cleveland area.


-Phil
 
Re: Value Wireless Mic system for Community Theater (AT3000 or EW100, etc)

This is where I cannot recommend Mipro heavily enough - including their own sub-$100 capsule MU55LS.

I just picked up my new 24 channels of this system today - dropping off my old 24 channels in return, to be ready for the new frequency range.

While being comparable i price to some of the systems you mention, it is simply the best sounding, most quiet and most stable RF-link I know of. I will try to make a short video clip of a choir recording I made recently using only these mics and wireless systems for you to see (and hear). IMHO the quality is stellar.

I have used them for about 7-8 years now, and feel very strongly about this recommendation. And I have no affiliation!
 
Re: Value Wireless Mic system for Community Theater (AT3000 or EW100, etc)

Thanks for the reply Frederik I will definitely look into those.

I think the big question between the EW100 and AT3000 right now is if the connector on the Senny wireless packs is durable enough, especially compared to the AT connectors.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Phil
 
Re: Value Wireless Mic system for Community Theater (AT3000 or EW100, etc)

+1 on the Mipro units. You could also pay the extra money and get the same thing with the Beyerdynamic label. I own both and they interchange. For the bodypacks go with the metal instead of plastic unless you don't mind using gaff tape when the tabs break off. If Don's frequency set is correct for your area you will need Mipro units in frequency 6A which is 620~644 MHz. I own over a dozen units and have been amazed with them. Frederik is right about about how stable the RF link is and I will add that you don't hear any compansion going on like I heard with my old 700MHz Shure systems. I have no affiliation with Mipro either. Mike at Freq City Sound turned me on to them a couple of years ago and I haven't looked back.
 
Re: Value Wireless Mic system for Community Theater (AT3000 or EW100, etc)

Phil Lewandowski said:
Frederik and Eric, What are the specific units from Mipro that you are using?

Thanks,
Phil
Click to expand...

Hi Phil,
I am using the ACT 707 series and I pretty much have at least one example of everything. I just checked and it has been replaced with a new 7 series which is a wideband version of what I have. Mipro is not very well known yet and I just tried it the first time based on the recommendation of Mike Volkerding who uses and sells Mipro and the "S" brands as well. I was blown away. The handhelds that I use get 15- 20 hours of show time on 2 AA batteries and the gain before feedback is so high it has almost made me lazy about ringing out monitors. I routinely have talent walking in front of the mains or dropping their mic hand down in front of the monitors with no issues whatsoever. The sound is better than a wired SM58 by a large margin for most vocalists as a comparison. I used to hate almost all wireless mics because of the lousy sound with all of the audible compansion and the occasional dropout but not so with the Mipros. The small amount of compression is pleasing to the ear and somewhat negates my use of insert compression on vocals for all but the worst singers. I have a pile of the mid line plastic case ones that I use on all vocals in festival settings now for the reasons mentioned and also for the convenience of just grabbing a mic and stand and putting it anywhere in a hurry without dealing with a cord. The metal case transmitters and upper model recievers are pro. The plastic case bodypacks are not. Hope this helps.

-Eric
 
Re: Value Wireless Mic system for Community Theater (AT3000 or EW100, etc)

Eric Cagle said:
Hi Phil,
I am using the ACT 707 series and I pretty much have at least one example of everything. I just checked and it has been replaced with a new 7 series which is a wideband version of what I have. Mipro is not very well known yet and I just tried it the first time based on the recommendation of Mike Volkerding who uses and sells Mipro and the "S" brands as well. I was blown away. The handhelds that I use get 15- 20 hours of show time on 2 AA batteries and the gain before feedback is so high it has almost made me lazy about ringing out monitors. I routinely have talent walking in front of the mains or dropping their mic hand down in front of the monitors with no issues whatsoever. The sound is better than a wired SM58 by a large margin for most vocalists as a comparison. I used to hate almost all wireless mics because of the lousy sound with all of the audible compansion and the occasional dropout but not so with the Mipros. The small amount of compression is pleasing to the ear and somewhat negates my use of insert compression on vocals for all but the worst singers. I have a pile of the mid line plastic case ones that I use on all vocals in festival settings now for the reasons mentioned and also for the convenience of just grabbing a mic and stand and putting it anywhere in a hurry without dealing with a cord. The metal case transmitters and upper model recievers are pro. The plastic case bodypacks are not. Hope this helps.

-Eric
Click to expand...

Thanks Eric, Have you by chance used any of the Sennheiser EW series for comparison sake?
 
Re: Value Wireless Mic system for Community Theater (AT3000 or EW100, etc)

Phil Lewandowski said:
Thanks Eric, Have you by chance used any of the Sennheiser EW series for comparison sake?
Click to expand...

I had an artist bring her own wireless mic to an outside show last summer and it was a Sennheiser but in all fairness I did not pay attention to what model it was. I assumed it was a lower line model for several reasons: 1) It was a local band 2) She had problems mid show with it, which could have just been a battery dying. 3) I handed her a Mipro which was already queued up as lead vocal in the monitors as a lead vocal mic from the last band and the sound was night and day better with the Mipro. I hesitate to even put this on the board because the Sennheiser could have been faulty from go which would not be a good comparison.

I can tell you in a direct comparison with my $1000 Beyerdynamic SCM 930 M wireless transmitter that the sound is very close. I want to say the Beyer is better to justify the cost but it is mostly just different and I only hear it when rider issues are involved. Maybe on a set of studio monitors it would be more noticeable. They are both condensers and very smooth. The Mipro 7 series stuff is not an economy product but it has a very attractive price point for what it is. I believe you could get 8 channels of the metal bodypack and 2 4-channel receivers for way under your $5000 price. I have not seen or heard better RF performance at any price. I have seen a few as good but for much more money. I have never noticed a drop out and I have had multiple units at well over 200 feet several times at parades and such. The big selling feature for me is how good the sound quality is. I actually prefer them with the condenser capsule over most of my wired options for sound quality alone and that seems crazy.

I would ask Frederik and others who have more experience with the lav and bodypack setups about the pros and cons since that is your intended application. I have around 10 of them but my use so far has only been with a single speaker in a corporate environment or as wireless guitar rigs. I can tell you that the RF aspects, reliability, and build quality on the upper line units is stellar. The Auto Channel Targeting is fast and easy, and channel to channel interference is nonexistent if you stay within the recommended groups. That is all the free advertising I am going to give Mipro for now before they demand a medal or something.

Good luck with your system!
Eric
 
Re: Value Wireless Mic system for Community Theater (AT3000 or EW100, etc)

Anyone know who the Canadian distributor is for Mipro? A google search shows Martek, but I don't believe that to be accurate for a couple reasons.
 
Re: Value Wireless Mic system for Community Theater (AT3000 or EW100, etc)

Also anymore suggestions for under $200 omni mic elements that can compare them to the standards; B3 etc.


Also we are between the EW100 and Mipro right now, so just looking for those that have direct experience with both to help figure out which would be best suited for us.


Thanks,
Phil
 
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Re: Value Wireless Mic system for Community Theater (AT3000 or EW100, etc)

Hi Phil-

One USA source of MiPro is Ray Rayburn. He doesn't sell anything that fails to work exceptionally well or is inconsistent in any way. Ray's taking on this line is a ringing endorsement and I suggest you call him up after 1/1/12 to chat with him.
 
Re: Value Wireless Mic system for Community Theater (AT3000 or EW100, etc)

Ok Senny dealer here but mainly a dealer because we find the EW stuff such great bang for the buck; they have the same innards as the higher up models so you don't run into any bad sounding companding that you might hear in other "MI grade" products.

Now that blatant plug over the one thing I cannot stress enough in a situation like this where you are running a lot of wireless is that you REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY need an antenna distribution system; even if it means you buy fewer units in the long run you are saving yourself a lot of headaches. Even if they receivers will be near the stage a distro system helps reduce intermodulation and all that other crap you run into with an antenna farm. Also be sure everything is in the same range and bank- whoever your dealer is should be able to help you pick the best range!
 
Re: Value Wireless Mic system for Community Theater (AT3000 or EW100, etc)

Phil Lewandowski said:
Thanks for the reply Frederik I will definitely look into those.

I think the big question between the EW100 and AT3000 right now is if the connector on the Senny wireless packs is durable enough, especially compared to the AT connectors.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Phil
Click to expand...

Ah just saw this but with a bunch of 100's in installs we've never had a connector break. The packs are pretty much all metal; really rock solid stuff.

EDIT:

I've actually used the Mipro's directly against the 100's for a pretty well known touring comedy troupe and while the Mipro's were quite good sounding our whole crew agreed that the 100's sounding a lot better. Same brand headsets on both too.
 
Re: Value Wireless Mic system for Community Theater (AT3000 or EW100, etc)

If it were my money, I would spend it on Sennheiser. Aside from the fact that one theatre I frequently work at has 8 ew300 G2 and 8 ew100 G2, I think the build quality is very good. The packs are mostly metal with a little plastic (the battery compartment door) and seem to be very durable. Their size is convenient and they do not require the batteries to be flipped positive to negative (seems small, but it saves time when putting batteries in since you can take them straight from the package). I agree that the weakest part of their design is the connector, particularly the strain relief on the molded plugs. While I have had to replace a few plugs on the elements, the connectors on the packs themselves seems pretty durable. Sometimes they slip a little and you need to tighten the lock ring, but I've had to do the same thing for the T4AM on the Shure units I own.

Aside from the hardware, there are a few other reasons I would pick them over Mipro and probably AT. Their Evolution series is made in the USA and their higher lines are made in Germany (I go for domestic products whenever I can). Their support in Old Lyme, CT, has been great and not having to go through a dealer to get support really helps. Also, they have a switching bandwidth of 42MHz while Mipro is only 24MHz and AT is 25MHz.

Finally, I'd encourage you to go one step up and look at the ew300 series. The major difference is the inclusion of Ethernet networking, which allows for remote monitoring of the system.
 
Re: Value Wireless Mic system for Community Theater (AT3000 or EW100, etc)

brian maddox said:
i cannot tell a lie. i've been doing pro sound for 20 years and i have not idea what this means... :(

school me please...
Click to expand...


That means that each individual frequency band is 42MHz wide (e.g. Sennheiser band A is from 516MHz to 558MHz and AT Band C is from 541.500 MHz to 566.375 MHz). Wider bandwidth allows for a broader range of frequencies from which to select. By keeping to as few bands as possible, you maintain better interchangeability between components and have better flexibility.
 
Re: Value Wireless Mic system for Community Theater (AT3000 or EW100, etc)

Jeff Stevens said:
Also, they have a switching bandwidth of 42MHz while Mipro is only 24MHz and AT is 25MHz.
Click to expand...

The new wideband MiPro series has 72 MHz bandwidth on the receivers and 36 MHz on the transmitters. So you need 2 different types of transmitters to utilize the full 72 MHz pr. receiver band, but it's still better than 24MHz, which was the switching bandwidth of the old system.

The Mipro systems can also be monitored from a PC via a serial connection. Works great!

In my experience MiPro's sound quality is superior to all Sennheiser Evolution series, although I haven't tried G3 systems yet.


Finally, I'd encourage you to go one step up and look at the ew300 series. The major difference is the inclusion of Ethernet networking, which allows for remote monitoring of the system.[/QUOTE]
 
Re: Value Wireless Mic system for Community Theater (AT3000 or EW100, etc)

Good to see the Sennheiser guys chime in and for the record over half of the microphones I own and use are Sennheiser. I love the high end stuff but have virtually no experience with the new budget versions. Because this thread is about an economical bodypack application it is good to hear from guys who have used them as my experience there is limited. Like I said I voted a definite no on the plastic versions of the MiPro because of the durability issues I stated but the metal ones have been great. As far as the bandwith issue the new MiPro 7 series wideband transmitter has an expanded 36MHz bandwidth and new wideband receiver has expanded 72MHz bandwidth which is a nice improvement. Here is where a possible problem comes into play. The older 707 series could be bought at a deal, a 4 channel receiver and 4 metal bodypacks for under $2000 street including taxes and shipping. I have not been able to get a quote on the new wideband stuff yet but the retail price has gone up significantly. I will find out when the dealers open back up what the real deal is. Also there might be some remaining ACT 707 stock that could be had at a deal. We will have to see.

+1 on what Peter said about antenna distribution system being a must if you get into multiple recievers. The MiPro 4 channel verson helps a bit but if you go over 8 channels I wouldn't want to be without one and I would also add the high gain antennas and spread them out a bit. Also if you are using in ears with them thats a topic for a whole new thread.
 
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