RCF NX L23-a on sticks?

T

TJ Cornish

Graduate
Jan 13, 2011
1,263
1
0
St. Paul, MN
I currently have the EAW JFL constant curve system which has worked well for me up to this point – good fidelity and volume. I’m finding that a few of my gigs have the potential to push 800-1000 people indoors, which is more than I’m comfortable doing with my current system without some expensive upgrades of more boxes, more processing, more amps, etc. I’m at a crossroads between either doing that, or potentially switching systems.

The RCF NX L23 caught my eye, because it reportedly sounds good and would be perfect for my larger shows. It can also be mounted on tripods, similar to my current gear.

My question is what will the vertical dispersion be with the supported configuration of 2 boxes faced straight forward? If I “ground stack” a pair of boxes such that the lower box faces down 7 degrees or so and the top box faces straight forward, will I be any worse off than my current 15° constant curve system for coupling and vertical coverage?

I understand that I won’t have any “line-array” like characteristics in this scenario, but is this a step backwards for short throw applications from my current system?

I’ve played extensively with the RCF shape designer software, and it’s terrible. When you switch to English units, not only are the dimensions multiplied by 3.3, but so is the dB prediction scale. I’ve never seen a system that can produce 450dB!!

Also, there isn’t really a good indication of what coverage will actually be with the scenario it generates – there’s no way to see any frequency plots, so you’re guessing as to how much of a compromise the suggested solution really is.

Any other thoughts on this system would be greatly appreciated.
 
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Re: RCF NX L23-a on sticks?

450dB? even if you mean 150dB you are kidding yourself. The JFL and the RCF are so close in spec that you will not notice a difference in ability between the two systems. If anything the EAW is better because it is horizontally symmetrical, and I personally would rather the pair of 10"s. If you point either box straight out with an additional box pointing 7* down, you will end up with more problems than solutions. Both of these boxes are going to want to be splayed 15* one to the other, which will give you 30* of coverage. If you try and cheat, and only splay 7* you will likely just get a hot spot in the middle of your coverage and have problems maintaining a consistent freq. response.

P.S. I am not sure you can buy JFL210's in USA anymore save for the used market.
 
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Re: RCF NX L23-a on sticks?

Brandon G Romanowski said:
Both of these boxes are going to want to be splayed 15* one to the other, which will give you 30* of coverage. If you try and cheat, and only splay 7* you will likely just get a hot spot in the middle of your coverage and have problems maintaining a consistent freq. response.
Click to expand...


The NXL23A is a line array cabinet, not a fixed curvature system. It is designed to be used anywhere from flat to 15 degree splay.
 
Re: RCF NX L23-a on sticks?

2-3 boxes a side i say the eaw jlf better all day long with ux8800/lab/lake
4-6 boxes a side rcf could pull ahead

best guy to answer this is hal harrison
he has made the swich i belive

mike or any one AB the rcf nx l 23 vs the vt4886?
performance manger/lacII/crown soft ware is problay better then the rcf software

its 2012 and im still a beliver in power amp racks r best
unless u whant meyer

ymmv
 
Re: RCF NX L23-a on sticks?

Brandon G Romanowski said:
450dB? even if you mean 150dB you are kidding yourself. The JFL and the RCF are so close in spec that you will not notice a difference in ability between the two systems. If anything the EAW is better because it is horizontally symmetrical, and I personally would rather the pair of 10"s. If you point either box straight out with an additional box pointing 7* down, you will end up with more problems than solutions. Both of these boxes are going to want to be splayed 15* one to the other, which will give you 30* of coverage. If you try and cheat, and only splay 7* you will likely just get a hot spot in the middle of your coverage and have problems maintaining a consistent freq. response.

P.S. I am not sure you can buy JFL210's in USA anymore save for the used market.
Click to expand...
Brandon - you need to give me a little credit. As I mentioned, the software multiplied ALL the units - including dB by 3.3 to convert from meters to feet. I recall from an old Tom Danley post, spontaneous combustion due to air friction happens at about 180dB. 450dB would be planet imploding.

As Mike mentioned, the big difference between the NX L23 and my JFLs is the ability to do angles other than the full 15degrees. I'm not a line array whiz yet, but I do know that vertical coverage tends to narrow as more elements are added, which is why I'm not assuming that this is all simple math.

If there aren't any gotchas to using the RCF boxes like how I use my JFLs, this system is all upside to me. Much better scalability, self powered, etc. I also believe I will be able to fabricate an adapter that will fit on my Gloal Truss ST132 stands that makes use of the subwoofer ground stacking arms so I can vary the angles of the boxes as well as put 3 boxes on a tripod stand.
 
Re: RCF NX L23-a on sticks?

Mark Lonow said:
2-3 boxes a side i say the eaw jlf better all day long with ux8800/lab/lake
4-6 boxes a side rcf could pull ahead

best guy to answer this is hal harrison
he has made the swich i belive

mike or any one AB the rcf nx l 23 vs the vt4886?
performance manger/lacII/crown soft ware is problay better then the rcf software

its 2012 and im still a beliver in power amp racks r best
unless u whant meyer

ymmv
Click to expand...
Wow - your replies are hard to read.

I have the UX8800 and have been very happy with how my system has worked so far. It sounds good and with the UX8800 it is plug and play. The problem is after 3 boxes of JFL you're at 45 degrees and adding any more means you light up either the floor or ceiling, or both.

What do you base your comparison on? According to the specs, the RCF is the equal of the JFL for output, and once you get past 3 boxes, the RCF should kill the JFL for output. I haven't yet heard the NX23, but according to a couple people I respect - Peter Morris and a few others, it supposedly sounds good.

I have talked to Hal's cohort David Jameson. I am indeed interested in how they find the system. Hopefully they will contribute here.

One of the reasons I'm interested in the powered boxes is that I have automatic amp redundancy. If a box goes down, the rest of the system keeps running. Currently if I lose an amp on my JFLs, I would lose all of the tops or all of the subs.

I will look into the 4886s and am interested in the DVA stuff too, but what attracts me to the RCF is the price, the pole mount and being self powered.
 
Re: RCF NX L23-a on sticks?

Its only scalable if you have the extra boxes. It is simple math as far as coverage is concerned. The difficult part is dealing with the erratic FR when you try and use 2 boxes and call it a line array. Unless your getting 6 per side, I wouldn't bother.
 
Re: RCF NX L23-a on sticks?

Mark Lonow said:
2-3 boxes a side i say the eaw jlf better all day long with ux8800/lab/lake
4-6 boxes a side rcf could pull ahead

best guy to answer this is hal harrison
he has made the swich i belive

mike or any one AB the rcf nx l 23 vs the vt4886?
performance manger/lacII/crown soft ware is problay better then the rcf software

its 2012 and im still a beliver in power amp racks r best
unless u whant meyer

ymmv
Click to expand...

No one in their right mind would buy anything other than the VT4886. It's the lightest of them all, probably the loudest, and has the best name and brand recognition. It can be pole mounted with the bracket, flown like a real array, and used as downfills for larger rigs. And 6 boxes is easily powered with one IT12000HD. Many say it's the best sounding box JBL has ever produced. And - get this - it costs about the same as the other small arrays!!
 
Re: RCF NX L23-a on sticks?

So my name popped up in this thread... I have only heard the L23 boxes and haven't had a chance to mix on them. Like David said, we have yet to receive them but as soon as we get them and take them out for a test drive I will gladly report back on my thoughts on the JFLs versus the L23. That being said, from all the specs, Brandon is right on in regards to box to box SPL output but where the L23 is going to shine is when you really need that little more that a JFL wont give you due to it being a constant curvature design as opposed to the L23 being a true line array. Regarding the T4s, don't even bother. I A/Bed them with the JFLs and they weren't even close. You really need about 2-3 T4 to equal the output of a JFL/L23 and as light and cute as they are I would rather spend the money on buying fewer louder boxes made of wood and loaded with better components than having a ton of plastic T4s which just aren't very ballsy.
 
Re: RCF NX L23-a on sticks?

Two of the L23As on a stick sounded very good to me. I'd say the pair got about as loud as a single ZXA5 before they limited, but I didn't run a direct comparison. As far as freq response, they do have push-button eq processing for different array sizes.
 
Re: RCF NX L23-a on sticks?

Hal Harrison said:
. Regarding the T4s, don't even bother. I A/Bed them with the JFLs and they weren't even close. You really need about 2-3 T4 to equal the output of a JFL/L23 and as light and cute as they are I would rather spend the money on buying fewer louder boxes made of wood and loaded with better components than having a ton of plastic T4s which just aren't very ballsy.
Click to expand...

I think you are about right – one JLF / NXL to about 2 … maybe 3 DVA’s T4s, and it’s about 3 xT4 to every T12.

DVA T4 - 128dB peak
NXL – 133 dB peak (+5)
JFL – 133 dB peak (+5)
DVA T12 - 136 peak (+8)

The DVAs use RCF "precision" drivers just like the NXL range – when EAW and RCF were both part of Loud Technologies they used drivers from the same range / quality components in some of their premium speakers. These are excellent drivers. The weak point in the T4 is the amplifiers; they are a bit noisy, not that powerful and the sound quality is average…. but for the price I think they are great. Put 8 x DVA T4’s a side up and you can do a lot more than you can with JFLs, put 8 NXL up and you can make a serious amount of good noise.
Then there are the DVA T12’s, I have not heard them next to the JFL’s but I have heard them next to KF730’s (without focusing) - to me they sounded much better, threw much further and went louder.
I would check out the T12s, NXL23 and the 4886’s – all excellent, but will suit slightly different applications.
BTW the 730 for example, uses 2 x RCF ND1171 HF drivers and the DVA T4 use a 2 x RCF1141.

Peter
 
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