Bar/Club stage volume level?!?!

Re: Bar/Club stage volume level?!?!

All else aside, smack the stageleft guitar player upside the head for the SS cover on top of his amp to assert that you just invaded the stage and things are going to be your way from this day forward.

You don't have to morally agree with every gig, but Nazis? Are you from Illinois? :)
 
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Re: Bar/Club stage volume level?!?!

Jason Dermer said:
All else aside, smack the stageleft guitar player upside the head for the SS cover on top of his amp to assert that you just invaded the stage and things are going to be your way from this day forward.

You don't have to morally agree with every gig, but Nazis? Are you from Illinois? :)
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I was squinting at the hat, too....
 
Re: Bar/Club stage volume level?!?!

Vinny D'Agostino said:
Yes, this room is incredibly loud all on it's own, just people talking in this venue can make your ears hurt.....now add a band that wants to wage volume wars and it just makes it worse.
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Evan Kirkendall said:
Drummer was probably bashing away on his cymbals, so the guitar player couldn't hear his rig. So, he turned it up, and since it was pointed at his ankles, he cranked it some more. Bassist couldn't hear his rig over both of them, so he cranked up. Stage becomes white noise at this point and nobody can hear anything. More "me" in the wedges, and it only adds to the noise. It's a lose-lose situation...



Evan
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Drummers who bash cymbals in a loud room must die. This is the story of my life - every hell-hole I've ever played is like this and they wonder why it's loud. The noise in these rooms without a band is enough to make me crazy. Here's an amp I actually used one night as a 3 piece in a small place...

Allen Amplification - Chihuahua

(it's a fearsome 10 watts into a 10")

chihuahua.jpg
 
Re: Bar/Club stage volume level?!?!

I try to talk to them, suffer through them, and then they are added to the "Do not bring back" list.
 
Re: Bar/Club stage volume level?!?!

First, looks like a nice rig. Ef500ps and looks like one ls800p or ls801p?
What you discribe is pretty much normal for bands without a clue. Mix one last weekend. Room was 25 wide and maybe 50 feet long. Guitar player filled the room.
I mixed as far back as I could and out of the "fireing point" of the guitar.
Like you loaded up the bass and vocals. Let everything else be.

If you can have a set of side fills. This does help. At least for me.
If your drummer "plays" the cymbols and hits the drums once in awhile your pretty much out of luck in a room of that size.

If the room is full and the bar is making money you'll be fine. Its hard to just let the loud sound go and just do the best you can. I've become tempered to it. It makes the low volume bands all that much better to mix for.

Your not alone.

Douglas R. Allen
 
Re: Bar/Club stage volume level?!?!

Since I am the first point of contact for an owner who feels the band is too loud, I have no problem talking to the band and laying down some sandbox rules. They don't always follow up, but then they typically are not asked back, and I have the choice to mix them or not next time. One memorable room I mixed was in the basement of an older church, used now by our local Arts school for shows promoted / booked by Afton Live. Think concrete block room, concrete floor, wood ceilings and six to ten bands, all who feel they have to play on 11 to get their tone. I am given, by Afton, and those who are in charge of the room - final say in all things audio. I keep it pro, and let them know that I hold the power to make or break them. (like they really give a shit) but it does give them a boundary that, once crossed, I leave the rest to them, without a foh mix - faders down - play off the amps and try to be heard vocally. These bands will have very short careers in the local scene due to their lack of understanding that volume never equates to talent, their loss of hearing, and complete disregard for club owners needs / wants. More often than not, they'll comply because I can be a real prick if needed, in a tactful - turn your shit down, kinda way. I win the owners respect as soon as I walk in. I'm there to make the acts sound their best and shape those young minds into a focused world view.
 
Re: Bar/Club stage volume level?!?!

The band in question does give me alot of work through out the year, and I have worked with them for the past 2+ years.
Most of the time there stage volume isn't much of an issue because the venues on there own are not as much of a natural amplifier like this particular one is.
The problem is, is that the band doesn't make the needed changes to be cooperative in this venue.

I have one more show booked with the band at this venue and that will be it for me and this venue. I can survive not having to work in this particular room with any band that I work with, it's just not worth the hassle and the eventual confrontations that happen with the management.

Not a big deal too me, I will just add it to my list!
I already have an entire city I will not work in because the venues/patrons/and parking just suck, and being just a bar band provider by the time I pay the bridge tolls and parking I am down $50 before I even get started, just makes it not worth my time.
 
Re: Bar/Club stage volume level?!?!

kristianjohnsen said:
Isn't that the kind of hat Lemmy wears? Perhaps a homage to him?
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If he were a bassist yes, but Jimmy Page started the whole stupid thing of wearing a frickin' SS hat. I'm sure that the guitarist feels he's paying "homage" to Jimmy with that.

+1 on disconnecting the lower cabinets if they want the look; it will also keep the amps at ear and not ankle level.

For the Mesa Lonestar amp, tell him to use the wattage switch to knock it down a bit and he'll still have his tone. And get an amp stand like this:
JamStands JS-AS100 Amp Stand
 
Re: Bar/Club stage volume level?!?!

Vinny D'Agostino said:
Anyway, I made it through the gig and got paid....which is pretty much all that counts on the bar circuit.
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I hope the money earned brings you a benefit that outweighs the torture you endured. I would rather have cleaned that club's toilets with a toothbrush than been forced to tolerate that "imposed mix suckage" situation and the muso's who just don't get it. Guess that's why I don't do bar gigs.
 
Re: Bar/Club stage volume level?!?!

I think we can all agree your rig is just too small for this massive sounding room... must be the 801p's causing problems... but seriously man, that must have been torture. I did a show last week where each guitar player had two Marshall full stacks, and the bass player had 2 Ampeg 8x10s. The room holds 200 people. I just muted the console and went out for cigarette (I don't even smoke). Sometimes we all just can't win.
 
Re: Bar/Club stage volume level?!?!

I've never been the guy to just give up and walk out on a band. Someone is paying me to be there and make it sound good, so that's exactly what I'm going to do. My first effort is to have the band bring their stage volume down during sound check. If that doesn't succeed, then I'll just deal with it. Vocals and kick in the PA? Works for me. If they're outrunning my PA, well, then I did everything I could and when people start complaining, I send them to the band on stage.

Normally when the house is packed, nobody cares what the SPL is, as long as it sounds good. I've been cruising along at 108dBA in some of these smaller clubs. It sounded awesome and everyone was having a great time. Yeah, it was fucking loud, but that's what earplugs are for.


Evan
 
Re: Bar/Club stage volume level?!?!

Evan Kirkendall said:
I've never been the guy to just give up and walk out on a band. Someone is paying me to be there and make it sound good, so that's exactly what I'm going to do. My first effort is to have the band bring their stage volume down during sound check. If that doesn't succeed, then I'll just deal with it. Vocals and kick in the PA? Works for me. If they're outrunning my PA, well, then I did everything I could and when people start complaining, I send them to the band on stage.

Normally when the house is packed, nobody cares what the SPL is, as long as it sounds good. I've been cruising along at 108dBA in some of these smaller clubs. It sounded awesome and everyone was having a great time. Yeah, it was fucking loud, but that's what earplugs are for.


Evan
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With this particular band once you mention that there stage volume is to loud all they do is start pointing fingers instead of coming up with a solution, so if they don't care.....I care even less!
And by the way I have also packed up on a band while they were playing, 2-songs into there first set! (I wish I had it on video, it really was classic)
Left them with 2-vocal monitors on stage for the rest of the night, I also have never been back in that shit hole of a venue in Newport RI either.....my blood pressure thanks me for this!
This was not really a band issue I was having but a club management issue...and before I wound up in jail I figured it was just best to leave.
 
Re: Bar/Club stage volume level?!?!

A couple of suggestions I often have for bands in that situation: 1) Bring as many amps as you want to if you have the need to look cool. You can even turn them all on, but only plug one in. 2) A better option, turn the amp sideways 90 degrees and face it directly at the guitar players ears. Can you hear yourself now? Good. I bet the drummer can hear you now as well and you are not killing the audience. 3) A very cool old school bass amp trick is to put a cabinet facing the floor on a few rubber grommits or rubber blocks an inch or 2 off the floor. Everyone on stage will now hear the bass including the bass player and it can actually be at a lower volume and still pound the players. Physics works for me. 4) If you have the capability delay the mains to the backline roughly 1 millisecond per foot plus 10 as a place to start. It will allow you to add a little tone and clarity to guitars and drums without having to fight the stage slosh for position. Just my .02
 
Re: Bar/Club stage volume level?!?!

Small space, all solid surfaces including brick wall in back, loud band with 2 guitars & probably a hard hitting drummer? You never stood a chance. It's a very non ideal venue for anything other than acoustic music.

Greg
 
Re: Bar/Club stage volume level?!?!

Vinny D'Agostino said:
With this particular band once you mention that there stage volume is to loud all they do is start pointing fingers instead of coming up with a solution, so if they don't care.....I care even less!
And by the way I have also packed up on a band while they were playing, 2-songs into there first set! (I wish I had it on video, it really was classic)
Left them with 2-vocal monitors on stage for the rest of the night, I also have never been back in that shit hole of a venue in Newport RI either.....my blood pressure thanks me for this!
This was not really a band issue I was having but a club management issue...and before I wound up in jail I figured it was just best to leave.
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Vinny,
What is the name of the club in Newport?
I want to put it on my do not gig list.(You can pm if you wish).
Thanks,
Mike Monte
 
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