Bar/Club stage volume level?!?!

V

Vinny D'Agostino

Junior
Jan 12, 2011
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56
Warwick, Rhode Island, United States
My weekends are spent providing sound for bar bands, some better then others...some louder then others.
Tonight was just one of those nights were the stage volume was just insane...

I measured (using a rat shack DB meter) 109db*A* for stage volume.
That measurement was taken 20' away from any drum or amplifier...that was just instruments, no vocals.
The venue was approx. 30'w X 80' long (were the band plays, including the stage area)

Because of the stage volume all I had in FOH was vocals & kick drum.
All night the singer complained he couldn't hear his monitor(s)..
I had all (3) wedges (CM15V) lined up end to end in front of the stage, each wedge powered by 550w!!!!!
And both guitar players also complained they couldn't hear there amplifiers........are you F'n kidding me!!!!!!!!!

Anyway, I made it through the gig and got paid....which is pretty much all that counts on the bar circuit.
But what are others in my world seeing from bands they work with for stage volumes?
Are they as excessive as this? worse?

Always have to love it when the management comes over and says "It's kind of loud don't you think?"
I simply agreed and said, your right...it's loud..

Just figured I would ask seeing how I am still up at 5am waiting for my ears to stop bleeding so I can fall asleep!
 
Re: Bar/Club stage volume level?!?!

Vinny D'Agostino said:
My weekends are spent providing sound for bar bands, some better then others...some louder then others.
Tonight was just one of those nights were the stage volume was just insane...

I measured (using a rat shack DB meter) 109db*A* for stage volume.
That measurement was taken 20' away from any drum or amplifier...that was just instruments, no vocals.
The venue was approx. 30'w X 80' long (were the band plays, including the stage area)

Because of the stage volume all I had in FOH was vocals & kick drum.
All night the singer complained he couldn't hear his monitor(s)..
I had all (3) wedges (CM15V) lined up end to end in front of the stage, each wedge powered by 550w!!!!!
And both guitar players also complained they couldn't hear there amplifiers........are you F'n kidding me!!!!!!!!!

Anyway, I made it through the gig and got paid....which is pretty much all that counts on the bar circuit.
But what are others in my world seeing from bands they work with for stage volumes?
Are they as excessive as this? worse?

Always have to love it when the management comes over and says "It's kind of loud don't you think?"
I simply agreed and said, your right...it's loud..

Just figured I would ask seeing how I am still up at 5am waiting for my ears to stop bleeding so I can fall asleep!
Click to expand...

Don't worrie you not alone :)
In my experience at that level,the better the band the, lower volume they play and the more they know what there job is. Making people happy, dance and buy
beer/drinks. You job is 90pct communication 10pct sound work. First of all you most have the bar management (or who ever is the big boss) on your side. Second most bar owners or bands hire a sound man to take the conflicts when they arise, even though its not written or stated anyway, so don't be afraid to do that. Never be an asshole, but you must stand your ground. Both the band's, the bar and your own reputation is on the line, your the one to get blamed if its too loud or sound like shit ( if the band plays bad, or people but too little beer etc) so make a difference. If you don't care, get an other job. Most sound techs do the mistake of hiding behind the mixer, yes what you do there is fun but, but focus on the stage sound. Do a quick line check, so you know every thing is working and then work on the stage sound. Most musicians react negatively when we ask them to turn down, but a lot of time its enough to just re aim amps. Drums can be dampened with a thin towel etc. Cymbals with gaff tape or plexi plates. Also remember that a lot of those bands might not be used to wedges, but more a "side fill" or Small vocal PA from behind setup for vocals. Any way work together as a team, the band properly didn't come down just to play redicousy loud, but would like to make people happy, help them achive it.
mvh
Rasmus
 
Re: Bar/Club stage volume level?!?!

Vinny D'Agostino said:
I measured (using a rat shack DB meter) 109db*A* for stage volume.
That measurement was taken 20' away from any drum or amplifier

Just figured I would ask seeing how I am still up at 5am waiting for my ears to stop bleeding so I can fall asleep!
Click to expand...
Wow! I'm not sure what the translation is to dbC, but I usually try to keep things at 105dbC at FOH in small clubs and that is veryloud up front or on the dance floor, probably over 115 dbC.

I hope you have and use ear plugs in those situations, otherwise you will pay for it later.
 
Re: Bar/Club stage volume level?!?!

Mark Long said:
Wow! I'm not sure what the translation is to dbC, but I usually try to keep things at 105dbC at FOH in small clubs and that is veryloud up front or on the dance floor, probably over 115 dbC.

I hope you have and use ear plugs in those situations, otherwise you will pay for it later.
Click to expand...

*C* weighted was right about 8-10db higher....
 
Re: Bar/Club stage volume level?!?!

Here is the backline..
DSC00107.jpg


Monitors...
DSC00108.jpg
 
Re: Bar/Club stage volume level?!?!

room acustics r part of the "loud" blame


carpet the stage
drape back wall
raise and treat the roof excetra.....

good luck wit dat
 
Re: Bar/Club stage volume level?!?!

Nice pics. I know it's not likely, but those guys need to back off on the G.A.S.. And what's with the Nazi hat on the bass rig?
 
Re: Bar/Club stage volume level?!?!

109 db A w/no vocals, 20' away? That is stupid loud in a club.

The knee wall that wraps in and the hardwood floor on the stage make me think "loud stage", but I don't think that's your problem
The Fender 4 x 10 on top of a 4 x 12 cab and the Mesa Lonestar pointing at the knees are indicators of guys that like to play loud.
If they practice that way, they won't be happy turning down.

There are bands that I tell: I'm booked that day, even if I'm not.
 
Re: Bar/Club stage volume level?!?!

1 out of 1000 can take a rig like that and make it sound fat and full without being too loud. I've been using smaller and smaller amps for club work and never had a need for anything like that on any stage. But then I'm one of those guys that can make a 20 watter part your hair when things get going. Speaking of getting things going - did they fill the room with drinking dancers or did they clear it??
 
Re: Bar/Club stage volume level?!?!

Seems like they could have gotten by with half of what they brought. The Marshall cabinet is totally unnecessary. Tilt the Fender back and let it rip. That wouldn't look cool though.
The Bass player could have only used one of those cabs and been fine. That too, wouldn't look cool. I don't know what that is under the Line 6 but I hope his ankles have good hearing! Tilt the Line 6 back and let it rip! With the Nazi cap on top of the Fender, that tells me they're not very bright to begin with!

My ears bleed with yours, Vinny!

Pat
 
Re: Bar/Club stage volume level?!?!

Drummer was probably bashing away on his cymbals, so the guitar player couldn't hear his rig. So, he turned it up, and since it was pointed at his ankles, he cranked it some more. Bassist couldn't hear his rig over both of them, so he cranked up. Stage becomes white noise at this point and nobody can hear anything. More "me" in the wedges, and it only adds to the noise. It's a lose-lose situation...



Evan
 
Re: Bar/Club stage volume level?!?!

Gene Hardage said:
1 out of 1000 can take a rig like that and make it sound fat and full without being too loud. I've been using smaller and smaller amps for club work and never had a need for anything like that on any stage. But then I'm one of those guys that can make a 20 watter part your hair when things get going. Speaking of getting things going - did they fill the room with drinking dancers or did they clear it??
Click to expand...

Well college is in session so this particular club stays pretty busy...and it was busy all night.
 
Re: Bar/Club stage volume level?!?!

Mark Lonow said:
room acustics r part of the "loud" blame


carpet the stage
drape back wall
raise and treat the roof excetra.....

good luck wit dat
Click to expand...

Yes, this room is incredibly loud all on it's own, just people talking in this venue can make your ears hurt.....now add a band that wants to wage volume wars and it just makes it worse.
 
Re: Bar/Club stage volume level?!?!

Steve Hurt said:
109 db A w/no vocals, 20' away? That is stupid loud in a club.

The knee wall that wraps in and the hardwood floor on the stage make me think "loud stage", but I don't think that's your problem
The Fender 4 x 10 on top of a 4 x 12 cab and the Mesa Lonestar pointing at the knees are indicators of guys that like to play loud.
If they practice that way, they won't be happy turning down.

There are bands that I tell: I'm booked that day, even if I'm not.
Click to expand...

This is the one and only band that I work with that just doesnt get it when it comes to stage volume...this room most likely will now become another on my list of venues that I refuse to work at.
Not only is it loud as all get out, but it's one of those venues that is a restaurant that wants to be a night club also....so you have to wait for them to clear tables out of the way before you can load in....Then they expect the band to be up in running in 15 minutes!
 
Re: Bar/Club stage volume level?!?!

Hey Vinny,
With all of that wood in your picture, the whole place must have been resonating..
I mixed that particular band a couple of years ago at a club (The Catwalk) in New Bedford, MA. There seems to have been a "change in personnel" since then (the lead singer is still the same but the other members are different). From what I remember of the gig, the band was not overly loud. On the first break I told the lead guitarist that he could come out a bit more during his solos. I mixed on the band's JBL rig and things were fine. They packed the club and it was rocking. They were cool to work with and kept things lively.
Mike Monte
 
Re: Bar/Club stage volume level?!?!

This band may be hopeless, but before I would agree to work with them again, I would 'request' that they bring half the amps or bring small 1-12" amps if they have them for the guitars, and a small bass rig, or at least only one bass cabinet to the next show and try it that way. Put their guitars in the monitors if needed. If they feel they need to have the big-stack stage look, they can bring the big stacks as props, but leave them off and mic the small amps. Explain to them that they need to trust you that they will sound much better with everything in the PA instead of just vocals. The drummer will need to cooperate too and not bash away. Maybe smaller sticks or more damping. Explain to them with low stage volume, they will be able to hear the monitors and be able to sing and play better. I know, I know, this may be a soundman's pipe dream, but you never know. Maybe they will try it and be amazed at how much better it is to play under control.

The other question is, does this band play at that volume without ear plugs? If without, they will be deaf before too long. 109db A is way past what any club I mix in would tolerate. I typically see anywhere from 92-98A at FOH, with occasional peaks at 101 or so. (I don't normally measure volume at the stage) There was only one large club I mixed in that liked it loud, but it was a huge place with a line array. I would hit about 103-107A there at the back of the dance floor, but the place was usually packed every night and the club wanted it that loud.
 
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