Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

Hi Uli, thanks for the opportunity to participate in this Q&A about your and your company. Before I get to my questions I'd like to mention a few things. I've been involved in and passionate about Pro Audio for about 30 years, I've been a fan of Behringer since about 1994 when I came across some of your earlier products in a music store I came across while travelling between Adelaide and Melbourne. I'm a fan of most of your products because of the outstanding value for money, functionality, ease of use and quality for the price paid. I'm not poor but then again I don't have a huge disposable income so for me Behringer products suit my needs very well in most cases. I have numerous Behringer products including C2's, VX2496's, MDX2600's & MDX4600's, FBQ2496's, REV2496's, DEQ2496's, DCX2496's, MX3282, DDX3216's, B1800X Pro's etc. Virtually all the products I've bought new or second-hand but working have been trouble free. I have bought a few second-hand Behringer and other expensive brand products advertised as faulty cheap which I've repaired. I'd like to thank Behringer Australia for being most helpful, obliging & prompt when I've contacted them regarding parts for these repairs - the service has been second to none, which is a lot more than I can say for the support I've received from the importers of other famous expensive brands in Australia. Some of the repairs came down to a loose ribbon cable or a dry solder joint(s). One of the most common faults I came across was the plug going from SMPS to the main PCB not making good connection ie DEQ2496, FBQ2496, DCX2496 etc. Another was some of the capacitors going dry in the SMPS (DDX3216). Admittedly the units were a few years old and already faulty when I got them and I didn't know the history of them. My questions are has behringer upgraded the quality of the small multipin connectors used in it's products as this seems one of the main areas for failure? I think the connectors should be gold plated and a nice tight positive fit. Also has Behringer improved the quality of the electrolytic capacitors, espeacially in the SMPS? I noticed from comparing my older DEQ2496's to the newer ones that this seems to be the case as well as other small improvements. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but the last photo of thread 82 seems to be the internals of an X32? First of all it looks very neat and tidy and well designed? It looks like it still uses the same type multipin connectors? I hope these don't prove to be a problem. Has Behringer used good quality EXR type 105 degree type capacitors in the SMPS and provided more than adequate ventilation so everything runs relatively cool inside? I'm champing at the bit for the release of the X32, I hope to buy one soon, when they become available and I can afford it. Regards, Rob
 
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

Apologies for not responding to some of your questions as I am currently traveling.

The last couple of weeks have been extremely hectic as we're about to launch two ground-breaking Midas and Behringer products at InfoComm in Las Vegas. Check out the Midas FaceBook page for some clues.

Please also visit our brand-new show room/service center in Las Vegas. It's literately next door and you can check out all our latest digital mixers without the noisy show environment.
It would be great to meet you at our InfoComm booth - just chat me up.

Warm regards

Uli
 
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Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

Hi Uli, will Behringer bring out higher performance digital/ SMPS amps? While the output power and efficiencies of the iNuke series are impressive the damping factor is relatively poor - supposedly resulting in flabby bass and poorer speaker control in general. The same goes for other similar cheap digital/ SMPS amps, ie Peavey IPR, Crown XLS Drive core etc. I'm only guessing but I'd assume because of the efficiency of the output stage the iNuke amps have much less output transistors than an analogue amp of similar output so the output impedance is higher and hence the damping factor lower. Another factor might be the stiffness of the SMPS, but I'd say it's more attributed to the output stage. I suspect a universal PFC SMPS would be better in this regard but would also make the amps more expensive. I have various analogoue class H power amps made by Behringer, Crest & Phonic with damping factors ranging from 300 to 1000. My old Crest V1500's have a damping factor of 1000. Considering they are about 16 years old they out perform the more modern amps, they are also noticeably quieter than any of my other amps. Some of this is probably attributed to the discrete front end of these amps, where as all the other amps have a ic front end. Regards, Rob
 
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

I'm sort of a late arrival to this thread but hopefully can ask a question of Uli Behringer.

I am a big fan of the Behringer products especially since they are the best fit for my budget. :)~:)~:smile: The only issue I have had is the extremely slow response with a warranty request and I am wondering if the customer support will improve?

I purchased a X2222USB on May 2, 2012 and the mixer worked great! After a couple weeks of use, I was re-arranging the workspace the mixer was sitting at and unplugged the power cable from the power port. When I did this, one of the pins from the power port came out with the cord. Upon inspection it looked like the pin was not properly soldered during manufacturing. I then submitted a warranty request the next day on May 25, 2012. It wasn't until May 30, 2012 that I received a response asking me to provide a copy of the sales invoice and stating that once received, they will respond to me 24 - 48 hours. Here it is June 4, 2012 and I still have not received a response with the RA# and information for getting my mixer repaired. This is very frustrating since until the mixer is repaired/replaced, my band has no mixer. Again, I am a big fan of Behringer products and during the short use of the mixer it performed very well. I just wish the warranty process was not taking so long.
 
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

Doug Traser said:
I'm sort of a late arrival to this thread but hopefully can ask a question of Uli Behringer.

I am a big fan of the Behringer products especially since they are the best fit for my budget. :)~:)~:smile: The only issue I have had is the extremely slow response with a warranty request and I am wondering if the customer support will improve?

I purchased a X2222USB on May 2, 2012 and the mixer worked great! After a couple weeks of use, I was re-arranging the workspace the mixer was sitting at and unplugged the power cable from the power port. When I did this, one of the pins from the power port came out with the cord. Upon inspection it looked like the pin was not properly soldered during manufacturing. I then submitted a warranty request the next day on May 25, 2012. It wasn't until May 30, 2012 that I received a response asking me to provide a copy of the sales invoice and stating that once received, they will respond to me 24 - 48 hours. Here it is June 4, 2012 and I still have not received a response with the RA# and information for getting my mixer repaired. This is very frustrating since until the mixer is repaired/replaced, my band has no mixer. Again, I am a big fan of Behringer products and during the short use of the mixer it performed very well. I just wish the warranty process was not taking so long.
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Could you rephrase that as a question?

JR
 
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

Uli,

Does Behringer have any plans to move away from arguably "bottom of the barrel" products and into a middle or top end product line? This of course would require original designs and use of non-chinese labor and suppliers, but still, are there any plans to move in the upward direction in terms of product quality and innovation?

Tim Duffin
 
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

Tim Duffin said:
Uli,

Does Behringer have any plans to move away from arguably "bottom of the barrel" products and into a middle or top end product line? This of course would require original designs and use of non-chinese labor and suppliers, but still, are there any plans to move in the upward direction in terms of product quality and innovation?

Tim Duffin
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Not to put words in Uli's mouth, but if Behringer owns their own factory, be it in China, or the USA, they are in control of what gets made.. don't equate China with poor quality. you CAN get something made in china and have the finest quality product in the world (if you ask for it, and pay for it) and you can also have something made in the USA that is pure junk (if you specify it that way and pay less for it)

Jason
 
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

Dear Doug,

I am the VP, Care for MUSIC Group and I wanted to address your concern regarding the warranty process. We have made some significant investments into our overall Care operation including process, tools and resources. As a direct result, we have seen our response times significantly decrease. To put this into perspective, we were responding to customers inquires within 24-hours only 67% of the time six months ago. Over the last 30 days, we have been averaging 98% of all initial inquires and 85% of all follow-up activities received a response within 24-hours or by the next business day.


As you experienced first hand, last week was an anomaly due to the Memorial Day holiday and we had a difficult time recovering. We learned from the experience and are once again responding within 24 hours.


Even though we have made some significant improvements, we still have work to do. Our goal is to respond to every customer within 24-hours or by the close of the next business day if the response is received on a weekend or holiday. In short, my goal is to offer the best service in the industry and I look forward to delivering on this goal.
 
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

Jason Lavoie said:
Not to put words in Uli's mouth, but if Behringer owns their own factory, be it in China, or the USA, they are in control of what gets made.. don't equate China with poor quality. you CAN get something made in china and have the finest quality product in the world (if you ask for it, and pay for it) and you can also have something made in the USA that is pure junk (if you specify it that way and pay less for it)

Jason
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Lets not... this is Uli's thread to answer using his own words.

JR
 
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

Bennett Prescott said:
Robert,

Here's an article I wrote on why damping factor is a basically meaningless figure in the context of an amplifier - the overall system DF is almost entirely controlled by loudspeaker and cabling resistance.

http://www.bennettprescott.com/downloads/dampingfactor.pdf
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Hi Bennet, I guess you shot me down in flames, thanks for the insight, Ive never done these types of calculations before. You say this but some people say how much better the bass sounds comparing one amp to another, maybe some of it's the front end, some the output stage and some is the power supply, which to me would be the most important thing to consider - the stiffness and filtering of the power supply seams to be the most important factor. I've never got around to using them but a few years ago I bought some Yamaha subwoofer speaker processors using their YST system for some double 18" subwoofers they made years ago ( I don't exactly remember the model number but YST30 rings a bell). I think it involves using a low value resistor in series with the subwoofer ground side and some filtering and negative feedback, as far as I know it negates cable resistance and provides better control over the voice coil. I remember a similar idea being published in an electronics magazine many years ago. I realise the filters and maybe gains would need to be changed in these processors to make them work properly, maybe I'll get around to experimenting with them someday. I beleive Nexo and one or two others have use a similar system. Unfortunately as far as I know it's one amp one speaker with the system so with the two Ive got I'd be able to run a pair of double 18's. From what I know the drivers would have to have a low Qts value, ie 0.26 or lower to work at it's best. Regards, Rob
 
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

Robert Baverstock said:
Hi Bennet, I guess you shot me down in flames, thanks for the insight, Ive never done these types of calculations before. You say this but some people say how much better the bass sounds comparing one amp to another, maybe some of it's the front end, some the output stage and some is the power supply, which to me would be the most important thing to consider - the stiffness and filtering of the power supply seams to be the most important factor. I've never got around to using them but a few years ago I bought some Yamaha subwoofer speaker processors using their YST system for some double 18" subwoofers they made years ago ( I don't exactly remember the model number but YST30 rings a bell). I think it involves using a low value resistor in series with the subwoofer ground side and some filtering and negative feedback, as far as I know it negates cable resistance and provides better control over the voice coil. I remember a similar idea being published in an electronics magazine many years ago. I realise the filters and maybe gains would need to be changed in these processors to make them work properly, maybe I'll get around to experimenting with them someday. I beleive Nexo and one or two others have use a similar system. Unfortunately as far as I know it's one amp one speaker with the system so with the two Ive got I'd be able to run a pair of double 18's. From what I know the drivers would have to have a low Qts value, ie 0.26 or lower to work at it's best. Regards, Rob
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Bennet's article explained the math to you...

Still waiting for Uli's opinion. I know how I would answer you, but this thread isn't about what I think.

JR
 
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

Slightly surprised the Q&A has not been a more active thread discussion. Also surprised that my question -

john lutz said:
Hello Uli. I am honored to be able to present a question to you. What methods and standards does Behringer use to rate the power output of your power amps? How do your methods and standards compare to other popular brand amps in the same product bracket?

Take an iNUKE 6000 as an example. My question would be 6000 watts into what load, with what input, at what supply voltage, and for how long a duration? Forgive me if this is published somewhere, I have not yet found it.
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- has not been replied to. I thought it would be a subject of interest to Behringer and provide an opportunity to clear away some skepticism regarding "best case" power output numbers.
 
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

Patience- Most manufacturers are busy with Infocomm, and your question involves an area lacking an objective industry standard ("how long"), so I wouldn't expect a simple answer.

That said I also wouldn't expect him to pass up an opportunity like this to pimp his power amps which are a major product category, so wait for it...

JR
 
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

John Roberts said:
I'm sure Uli could tell us stories about manufacturing in China with his expanded operation there that would curl our hair... While I don't ask or expect him to share all that. Congrats on getting Midas engineers to locate over there. Western engineers are very useful to have in house over there.

If I could ask another question before he answers my first, what are Uli's expectations about long term yuan appreciation, rising wages and standard of living for Chinese workers, and the upcoming central government leadership transition? IIRC his factory is located away from the more populous manufacturing center so he may not see the same strong wage pressure as soon as facilities there, but the trend across the entire country seems to be toward higher costs and deteriorating exchange rates (at least wrt USD).. Hon Hai is building new factories in the north away from the coast and buying lot of robots. I think the car companies are already building factories in Africa as the next low cost manufacturing frontier.

JR
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Based on the current weak Euro and strong US dollar with QE1/2, the flooding cash is still looking for Yuan as a safe place for a while.By Chinese authority's hand to push wage up,the cost in China is going to turns less competition any more. Even enterprises move to inland from the coast cannot avoid the trend. However, the supply chains have still stayed in the coast and make those companies hesitate to follow.
 
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

Hua Sheng said:
Based on the current weak Euro and strong US dollar with QE1/2, the flooding cash is still looking for Yuan as a safe place for a while.By Chinese authority's hand to push wage up,the cost in China is going to turns less competition any more. Even enterprises move to inland from the coast cannot avoid the trend. However, the supply chains have still stayed in the coast and make those companies hesitate to follow.
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I am not sure Yuan is that much of a safe harbor, while the European banking and sovereign debt uncertainty is driving the short term relative currency valuation all around the world. This impacts China as the EU is a major customer for China. It is remarkable to see the dollar strengthen in the face of all the US QE, and that suggests other currencies are weakening more and this is a simple safety trade. There are still questions about China's housing market finding a fair level. Housing valuation was the trigger issue that slowed economic growth in the west and precipitated the economic uncertainty. China so far seems to be avoiding the fate of the west, but centrally planned economies often run into difficulty over time, we'll see if this time is different.

These are all short term perturbations (I hope). My question is after the dust settles where does China end up for long term cost effectiveness? Of course this dust will not settle for years, and is hard to predict from current metrics. I was curious about Uli's opinion, while he seems to be betting with his wallet, on China for factory, and Europe for engineering?, or not... Customer service certainly need to co-located close to actual markets, and now may be a time for bargain hunting in EU zone.

JR
 
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

Uli,

What's the plan with Turbosound? I've always had a great fondness for the brand... I'm curious to know where you'd like to promote them and what target audience you're after with them, in the marketplace.

Thanks!!
 
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

Uli,
The pro package is incomplete without a professional amplifier manufacturer, Turbosound is already involved with rebadged Lab Gruppen PLMs any plans of making them an offer they will not refuse?

Franz
 
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

Costa Lakoumentas said:
Great question Brad, thanks.

Those of us from a more pro and install background know that there is a huge divide between retail/MI and true professional applications. That's why we have invested in the expansion of our infield product support team and have launched the "Pro Zone" initiative. This initiative includes not only more resources in design and application support but also more direct factory contact in the field. Stop by our booth at InfoComm and see the first of what will be a fleet of trucks crossing the country with demo gear and expert advice.

I should also mention that since the launch of our Eurocom Install product line we have seriously upgraded our ability to communicate with system designers and consultants and offer them real support. Our new CL series and ELX line array speakers all have published EASE data and we have the resources to assist in any system design. We are looking forward to supporting our professional customers with first-class service and genuine application knowledge.

Costa
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I will preface this by saying it is reflecting walking up to the booth at InfoComm and speaking with the first available Behringer rep, so while it may have been a factor of the individual responding, it was someone Behringer chose to put on the floor as their representative at a professional industry trade show.

When asked how I as a system designer could get technical support I was told to contact Behringer's general product tech support group. When asked how I could get pricing I was told to contact a distributor or a dealer. When asked how I could demo the product to a client I was told I would have to go through a dealer. When I noted that as a consultant I needed to avoid involving any particular dealer the response was literally that they had no response and they seemed to feel confident enough in having no response to not pursue asking anyone else.

It seems like there is a significant discrepancy between your response and the experience I encountered at InfoComm.
 
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