Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

Brad Weber said:
When asked how I as a system designer could get technical support I was told to contact Behringer's general product tech support group. When asked how I could get pricing I was told to contact a distributor or a dealer. When asked how I could demo the product to a client I was told I would have to go through a dealer. When I noted that as a consultant I needed to avoid involving any particular dealer the response was literally that they had no response and they seemed to feel confident enough in having no response to not pursue asking anyone else.
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Brad, have you encountered other manufacturers who will arrange demos to consultants directly and NOT through their dealer network? Or give pricing (other than MAP) directly and not through a dealer? I'm not being facetious, I've simply never heard of a manufacturer ever doing that.
 
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

Andrew Broughton said:
Brad, have you encountered other manufacturers who will arrange demos to consultants directly and NOT through their dealer network? Or give pricing (other than MAP) directly and not through a dealer? I'm not being facetious, I've simply never heard of a manufacturer ever doing that.
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Also, at this price point if everyone who might buy one needs a demo that would be insane. How many Studiolive owners got a demo? Sheesh!
 
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

Andrew Broughton said:
Brad, have you encountered other manufacturers who will arrange demos to consultants directly and NOT through their dealer network? Or give pricing (other than MAP) directly and not through a dealer? I'm not being facetious, I've simply never heard of a manufacturer ever doing that.
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Yes, I usually have no trouble getting demo products and pricing through the associated independent reps or through the factory reps and to address John C's comment, that includes Presonus products via the independent reps for Presonus (and similar for Mackie, QSC, etc.). If I wanted to demo, either for myself or for a Client, a StudioLive, a QSC K8, a Mackie mixer, a SM58, a piece of bulk cable, a Neutrik XLR and so on I can contact my local rep or factory contact and usually obtain a demo or sample unit without any problem. I can also usually get a manufacturer's price list, sometimes MAP and sometimes Dealer, sent to me within hours or in some cases directly access pricing via secured areas on the rep's or manufacturer's web site.

Just to be clear, I'm not talking every consumer and end user getting demos whenever they ask but when you start marketing products to be installed in churches, theaters, etc. you are dealing with Owners, system designers, end users, etc. who need to learn about and get support for products without dealing with someone trying to make a direct sale or getting tied to a particular dealer. It is fun to watch the reaction of some manufacturers when I explain that for some projects, particularly some public bid projects, if a dealer has direct contact with the Owner or direct knowledge of the project then that dealer may be considered as having an 'unfair advantage' and prohibited from bidding on the related work or equipment. The idea that a dealer providing a product demo might be tied to their then foregoing the related sale is often a very foreign concept to those outside that market but a reality within it.

Also keep in mind that system designers and consultants may demo a product and then specify that product multiple times. It may seem outrageous to expect to demo a low cost or commodity item but if that may be related to several or even hundreds of that product being specified, the situation is a little different.
 
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

Andrew Broughton said:
Who are you addressing this to?
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Sorry if my comment is confusing. My understanding is that this thread was supposed to be a direct Q & A exchange with Uli Behringer.

We already spun off one thread when the S/N here started deteriorating from FAB questions about a single product.

Of course not my call.... but this seems to me like a pretty unique opportunity.

JR
 
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

Hi Uli,

Are there any plans for a firmware update or a totally new Behringer Ultradrive Pro to complement the new board and the line array system? I know the inukes come in dsp as well but would still like the stand alone.
 
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

Christian Boche said:
Why should they? The X32 is going to be a fast selling item anyway?
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I would rather read actual user feedback than magazine advertisements anyway. I can read the ads on their own website.

What I would like to have is the user manual so that I can really look at what the x32 system has to offer and if it will work for my application.
 
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

Uli Behringer said:
We just acquired a large building in Manchester to allow Midas to expand seven fold versus current size. We hired over 20 new engineers last year and are adding around 30 more high-caliber PHD’s, DSP and FPGA engineers plus technology visionaries to establish the most sophisticated Research center in our industry in order to get the whole Group to a new level.
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Hi Uli,
I am extremely impressed with the level of detail you have provided on this thread with regards to the Music Group, the companies, your factory and quality processes, and your future aspirations for your product lines with regards to R&D.

I, like yourself in my own time am an enthusiastic piano player and also regularly run FOH sound for amature bands in our area. I am quite excited to see the new X32 mixer after using many other digital consoles and owning a presonus console myself.

Back in the real world (my day job), I work for the largest global electronic components distributor, based in the North of the UK. I am particularly interested in your view with regards to the UK model many blue chip semiconductor manufacturers have taken, where the design responsibility lies heavily with their distribution partners to work directly with the OEM's. Large investments in design engineers have been made by the distribution channels to deliver this enabling the component manufaturers to keep there resources tight within the UK.

Your investment in the Manchester facility and it's resource shows a clear strategy for this to be a leading technical resource to the Music Group and I am particularly interested to know how you intend to interface with the support around you to achieve the best design/costs, my understanding is that since the takeover the relationships between the Manchester & Kidderminster locations and distribution, are more distant than ever.

Thanks

Alistair
 
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Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

Hi all,

I found this forum after looking for reviews of the X32 console due to be released. I think it's a great thread and I cannot believe that more manufacturers don't liaise directly with their end users in this way. It must be as enlightening for the manufacturers as it is for us end users.

I'm a freelance pro audio engineer and also a professional videographer, running my own business. Hence, my question is business related... Uli, I would like to know why you chose to brand the X32 console as Behringer when you could simply have branded it as Midas? When I asked the opinion of the new X32 from a well known UK PA hire company I was told, "I'm sure it will be a great little desk. Just make sure you buy two for when the first one breaks down."

The irony is not lost on me. The Behringer brand has taken a few knocks over the years. Midas on the other hand, is probably the worlds most respected pro audio brand. It seems to me it would have been far easier to market an amazing new Midas X32 at 4,000USD than a Behringer X32 at 3,000USD.

Thankyou for the opportunity to ask questions and I look forward to reading more posts on this thread. It's a great read! :)

Kind regards, Andrew.
Carillon Video - Professional Wedding Videographer & Wedding Video Production Services in Bolton, Manchester & all over the UK
Mama - The UKs 'all era' Genesis tribute band!
 
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

Andrew Prince said:
The Behringer brand has taken a few knocks over the years. Midas on the other hand, is probably the worlds most respected pro audio brand. It seems to me it would have been far easier to market an amazing new Midas X32 at 4,000USD than a Behringer X32 at 3,000USD.
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Of course I'm not Uli, but perhaps he sees this as an opportunity to make a big splash in undoing the "disposable product" mentality that some have towards the Behringer brand. Instilling greater consumer confidence in the Behringer brand is potentially much more beneficial (and profitable)in the long term than simply sticking a Midas badge on it and charging a few extra $.
 
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

Jeff Babcock said:
Of course I'm not Uli, but perhaps he sees this as an opportunity to make a big splash in undoing the "disposable product" mentality that some have towards the Behringer brand. Instilling greater consumer confidence in the Behringer brand is potentially much more beneficial (and profitable)in the long term than simply sticking a Midas badge on it and charging a few extra $.
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Jeff,

Of course, that's a great answer and one that I anticipated would come from Mr. Behringer. :)~:)~:smile:

But whichever way you look at it, if this new console is 'as per spec' then it's not going to matter which brand it is. Everyone who wants a 32 channel digital console with that feature set is going to buy one. In the long run, it's probably better that it's branded Behringer because if they really do become a market leader (and it looks promising) in the digital console market, they'll have to ensure that all their future product releases are the same high standard, which is good for us, the end users.

Of course, there could be a darker side to the whole business decision.... Music Group are trying to keep a clean slate on the Midas brand because they fear this product diminishing the Midas name and everyone who is anyone in the pro audio business will point fingers and scream, "Told you so!"

I do run my own business and I'm concious of such marketing decisions, but I'd hardly describe myself as a globetrotting CEO of a multinational corporation. Hence my curiosity on big brand thinking.

Personally, I hope it's the former because based on the spec and everything I've read in the X32 thread from Christian, this technology looks groundbreaking and put simply, I want one!

:lol:

I just wish someone would post some information in the other threads about general build quality as opposed to features. My first Behringer mixer fell apart because I left it in a cupboard for too long.

Kind regards, Andrew
Carillon Video - Professional Wedding Videographer & Wedding Video Production Services in Bolton, Manchester & all over the UK
Mama - The UKs 'all era' Genesis tribute band!
 
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

I actually read a book about brand management but this thread isn't about what I think (as if that's a secret).... :)

It is an interesting question but generally not the kind of thing openly discussed with the actual consumers who are hopefully the ones being influenced by that very brand image. "Ignore the man behind the curtain".

This whole thread is arguably an exercise in brand management but worth tolerating for the unusual access to the man behind the company, and some insight into how he thinks, and how he wants us to think about his company.

JR

PS: I have seen comments about fader feel and general first impressions. Build quality is hard to determine without a more rigorous inspection, and time with multiple users in the field to gain actual hands on experience.
 
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

Dear all,

apologies for the lack of response to your questions and thank you for your patience.

I just returned back from the USA where we attended Infocomm and announced the acquisition of the high-end speaker brand Turbosound. We also launched another groundbreaking product, the Midas PRO1 which immediately garnered an award for “Best in Show”.
We are very grateful for this award as the Midas team worked incredibly hard to get this engineering marvel completed in time. In fact it is the first digital Midas console under US$ 10,000 and the product will start shipping next month from the factory.

I will try to find some time over the next days to answer pending questions.

Thank you for your patience.

Uli
 
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

Michael Quick said:
Hi Uli, I have two questions.

1. How do you feel about the advancements Behringer has made in the past decade, and what sort of advancements and products can we look forward to in the upcoming years?

2. Are there any things you wish you could have done differently if you could with Behringer? If so, what?
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Dear Michael,

Thanks for your questions, and sorry about my slow response but the past few weeks have been extremely hectic!

I am incredibly proud of what we have accomplished these past 23 years, realizing a dream to build a company that has stood by its founding philosophy. I started the business because I believed that professional audio equipment could and should be affordable. Even after all those years we continue to push the envelope by delivering quality, performance and value that are unmatched.

If I were to summarize our greatest accomplishments, I would have to say that they are our manufacturing facility, our global engineering team and our relentless commitment to quality. These three pillars are what we have built the business on and will carry us well into the future. Allow me to expand on each a little more.

When I moved manufacturing to Asia over twenty years ago, we were basically the first in our industry. Many in our business perceived Asian manufacturing as somehow flawed and incapable of delivering consistent quality. Well, they were partly right, as it is nearly impossible to hold contract manufacturers to consistent materials and manufacturing methods. That became clear to me in the early nineties and is one of the major reasons we opened our own factory.

Manufacturing your own products in China is no easy feat; as we say, if it were easy, everyone would do it. We have had more than our share of learning experiences with vendors, legislators, factory workers and the inevitable complications of working across cultural boundaries. But I am extremely grateful to our team for sticking it out and building a world-class manufacturing facility with the very latest equipment and processes that now produces the best pro audio products in the world.

Our other great accomplishment has to be the more than 250 engineers that make up the backbone of the company. We employ some of the most talented and motivated engineering staff in all of the pro audio industry, with specialties in digital power, DSP, software, analog, wireless, microcontrollers, acoustics and every other discipline. These dedicated people are based in Germany, UK, US, China and the Philippines, delivering breakthrough technologies that find their way into our products.

It is interesting to me that many of our competitors have outsourced engineering right along with manufacturing. That is something we will never do as we view intellectual property (IP) as one of our main competitive advantages. Our extensive IP portfolio allows us to leverage core technologies and roll out new products that we have designed ourselves. I believe that this is the only way to ensure long-term stability and continued growth.

Finally I must say that our relentless commitment to quality has resulted in what I consider to be a metric that I am most proud of. We make some of the most reliable products in the pro audio and MI world, and that’s not by accident. Our continued investments in automated manufacturing, optical and X-ray inspection and rigorous lifecycle testing equipment, and in-house quality assurance have resulted in documented failure rates that are well below most of our competitors. We even built a comprehensive EMC and UL-approved safety lab to do rigorous and comprehensive compliance testing that goes way beyong the regulatory requirements.

Quality starts with reliable and well-tested designs that hold up in the real world that users live in. Our in-house testing labs qualify each and every component before it finds its way into our designs and we continually test every batch to ensure consistency. From axial insertion machines that place e-caps and other through-hole devices to the optical inspection machines that verify each and every solder joint, no-one takes more care building products than we do. Our goal is to deliver products that work flawlessly for years.

As a result, we recently introduced a 3-year Warranty Program for our products. Together with our new state-of-the-art service centers in Las Vegas and Kidderminster UK, we now provide a 24-hour response time for our customers.

As for what you can look forward to from us in the coming years, I can guarantee that we will continue to evolve right along with the people who make and perform music. Look for more affordable digital products, even more powerful and lightweight speakers, phenomenal DJ products and software that ties it all together. This is an exciting time in product development and the things we can do with our talent and efficient factory are nearly limitless.

What would I have done differently?
I believe in never looking back except to learn the lessons that help you move forward. In that regard, I would have built our factory even earlier than we did and not wasted time with contract manufacturers. Remember that our philosophy is to make great products and to make them affordable. That simple promise keeps driving our business forward as much today as it did when I first started on my kitchen table 23 years ago.

Warm regards

Uli

 
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Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

Ah we hardly knew you.... :)
===
Re: starting your own factory in China even earlier... That takes a certain critical mass of international sales volume, capital, and China's tolerance of foreign ownership is still an evolving situation with convoluted ownership strategies unprotected by traditional rule of law so subject to possible change (No, I'm not asking about your personal approach).

Apple computer surely has the resources and sales to fund their own factories there, but took the more conservative strategy of partnering with a Chinese CM (Foxconn/ Hon Hai). Apple seems to enjoy a good product quality reputation, despite not owning their factories. Ever since Nike's PR debacle surrounding substandard working conditions, western companies have been more directly involved with overseeing distant vendor behavior. So Apple is very hands-on with Hon Hai for different reasons.

I hope China continues on its wobbly path toward western style property rights, a good thing for the Chinese people, and a foundation for economic growth and stability. The long game for ownership in China is for local market access which will have more value after China becomes a mature consuming economy. They are working to become that, but it will take time and there will probably be multiple bumps in the road along the way.

JR
 
Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

Dear John,

Thank you for your comment.

Allow me to share a slightly different view. While Apple outsources all its manufacturing operations to contractors like Foxconn and Flextronic, other companies like Dell have gone in the opposite direction. As with every business one has to decide which disciplines are core to overall strategic direction. It is the business model that influences this decision.

While Apple’s business is defined through a high volume/low model mix, Dell’s model requires a more flexible approach due to its diverse product portfolio and the need to adapt to unique customer specifications. As a consequence, Dell focuses on extreme production efficiency in highly customized factories which require massive investments that no 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] party contractor would ever consider. The fact that Dell owns 3000+ manufacturing patents is proof of the strategic importance of manufacturing to its business.

Compared to the consumer industry, production runs in the professional audio industry are very low and generally unattractive to large contract manufacturers like Foxconn and Flextronic. Audio companies are left to deal with medium size or even 3[SUP]rd [/SUP]tier contractors. Today, almost all companies in our industry use Chinese manufacturing and are constantly on the hunt for the next factory that offers lower cost. As a result, contractors have a short-term mentality and do not invest in long-term relationships or expensive quality measures. It’s all about today’s order!

Behringer was the first audio company to move production to China. I must admit, in the early days we had our fair share of painful experiences with third-party manufacturing facilities. The reality of manufacturing in China is that you must control it or it will wipe you out. Initially we used 3rd party manufacturers who had little experience with audio products. It is common knowledge that those manufacturers made unauthorized parts substitutions to maximize profit and explicit work instructions were often ignored.

Frankly, it was a losing battle. So 10 years ago we opened our own manufacturing plant and today, we are one of the very few companies that has its own plant. We are proud of our dedicated people and high quality facilities. Was it easy? Absolutely not; but, it was worth the pain as today it is a huge competitive advantage. We now control our own destiny, we make long-term investments and we achieve quality levels only top tier contract manufacturers can offer.

When we acquired Midas, we invested in the most sophisticated equipment and spent over US$ 20 million. We built one of the most high-tech and automated plants in the world with high-precision SMT machines, in-circuit testers, optical inspection systems that automatically check every solder joint and x-ray equipment that can “see” through multilayer boards with fine-pitch and ball-grid parts.

If you take a look at our company videos on YouTube, you can see the huge investment we made in “Behringer City” or "MUSIC Group City" as we call it today. Hopefully you will experience the difference the MUSIC Group offers and better appreciate our decision to make our manufacturing processes a strategic priority.

MUSIC Group continues to invest both in great people as well as in cutting-edge infrastructure and this is our long-term strategy.

Uli
 
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Re: Uli Behringer of The Music Group Q&A

Uli Behringer said:
Dear John,

Thank you for your comment.

Allow me to share a slightly different view. While Apple outsources all its manufacturing operations to contractors like Foxconn and Flextronic, other companies like Dell have gone in the opposite direction. As with every business one has to decide which disciplines are core to overall strategic direction. It is the business model that influences this decision.

While Apple’s business is defined through a high volume/low model mix, Dell’s model requires a more flexible approach due to its diverse product portfolio and the need to adapt to unique customer specifications. As a consequence, Dell focuses on extreme production efficiency in highly customized factories which require massive investments that no 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] party contractor would ever consider. The fact that Dell owns 3000+ manufacturing patents is proof of the strategic importance of manufacturing to its business.

Compared to the consumer industry, production runs in the professional audio industry are very low and generally unattractive to large contract manufacturers like Foxconn and Flextronic. Audio companies are left to deal with medium size or even 3[SUP]rd [/SUP]tier contractors. Today, almost all companies in our industry use Chinese manufacturing and are constantly on the hunt for the next factory that offers lower cost. As a result, contractors have a short-term mentality and do not invest in long-term relationships or expensive quality measures. It’s all about today’s order!

Behringer was the first audio company to move production to China. I must admit, in the early days we had our fair share of painful experiences with third-party manufacturing facilities. The reality of manufacturing in China is that you must control it or it will wipe you out. Initially we used 3rd party manufacturers who had little experience with audio products. It is common knowledge that those manufacturers made unauthorized parts substitutions to maximize profit and explicit work instructions were often ignored.

Frankly, it was a losing battle. So 10 years ago we opened our own manufacturing plant and today, we are one of the very few companies that has its own plant. We are proud of our dedicated people and high quality facilities. Was it easy? Absolutely not; but, it was worth the pain as today it is a huge competitive advantage. We now control our own destiny, we make long-term investments and we achieve quality levels only top tier contract manufacturers can offer.

When we acquired Midas, we invested in the most sophisticated equipment and spent over US$ 20 million. We built one of the most high-tech and automated plants in the world with high-precision SMT machines, in-circuit testers, optical inspection systems that automatically check every solder joint and x-ray equipment that can “see” through multilayer boards with fine-pitch and ball-grid parts.

If you take a look at our company videos on YouTube, you can see the huge investment we made in “Behringer City” or "MUSIC Group City" as we call it today. Hopefully you will experience the difference the MUSIC Group offers and better appreciate our decision to make our manufacturing processes a strategic priority.

MUSIC Group continues to invest both in great people as well as in cutting-edge infrastructure and this is our long-term strategy.

Uli
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Uli,

As one that has used many products imported from China, mostly lighting, what you're saying about 'it's all about today's order' is so very clear to me now, and it's very unfortunate.

The fact that you have your own factory and prioritize quality has inspired enough confidence in me that I've already ordered a couple X32s, sight unseen, and will probably be adding a Pro1 to the system as well.
 
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