Too Old?

G

gordon mcgregor

Junior
Jan 13, 2011
259
0
16
Glasgow UK
Tonights little bit of hilarity, last minute call from a friend who's church had a 4-piece band guesting tonight the installed system aparently isn't enough could I bring some gear and help out.
So I arrive to find an input list of 2 vox, 2 accoustic guitars a cello and some hand percussion, the room is 50 feet long by 30 wide and actuall has nice accoustic.

The install stuff is small but enough for the worship style there and IMO would have done the gig as well but so what? I'll do as I'm asked.

My gear is 4 UPA1s and 2 Usw1s I set them up and wait on the band and their engineer, he is travelling with his own front end -- an SL24 some mics and IEMs controlled with the Iphone mix app. When he arrives his first words are what are those speakers? when told his next sentence is no no thy're too old and won't suit what we need can you not get some D&B or Nexo?. Sure just give me a minute and I'll pull some from a suitable bodily orifice thinks I, when told no not much hope he did with little grace get on with it. The gig did happen but every moan of feedback or missed cue was clearly my and my "old" speakers fault.

What I want to know are UPAs too old now? PS they are on their controllers and the nearfield measurement with smaart looks pretty much identical to the one Meyer publish.
Personally apart from the weight they do me fine and the locals are savvy enough to know it wasn't my gear's fault but I have a feeling this particular engineer is going to show up at a few gigs I would like to do, the venues are regular users of my gear but I really don't need him bad mouthing or causing the customers to go looking for other gear so do I just dry hire some Q7s PS15s etc and hit the churches with the extra bill which I doubt they'll want or put up with gripes, there is no tech rider by the way just a vague must "cover the room adequately for accoustic music" note.G
 
Re: Too Old?

I would ask him specifically what is "better" about the brands he wanted.

I would also question how old some of their instruments are-"WHAT-all you have is that 100yr old Martin guitar-You SHOULD be playing a brand new XYZ!" Everybody KNOWS they are "better".
 
Re: Too Old?

Most of those thoughts crossed my mind, and to be honest now I've had a while to think about it I probably shouldn't care, however as said youth is the son of a respected muso in this neck of the woods I need to be a little careful, said father wasn't involved but probably would be less than amused at any attempt to correct his boy who has apparently been to college to learn about "this stuff", didn't have the heart to tell him I taught his teacher.
Ivan said college has a sponsership with the major provider of D&B in UK I suspect he's never seen other brands of speaker until he left college, and his home church has a dodgy install of Nexo Ps15s that the church think the world of because the local music shop charged the cost plus 150% for them they must be good if they were expensive right?. G
 
Re: Too Old?

gordon mcgregor said:
When he arrives his first words are what are those speakers? when told his next sentence is no no thy're too old and won't suit what we need can you not get some D&B or Nexo?.
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Reminds me of the kid mixing for a band in a tent I was providing for at a festival a couple of years ago. He walks up to the FOH, reaches over to the DN360B and (without listening to anything over the system) pulls down all the sliders between 2.5 and 4K because "those frequencies are really painful". Said genius then proceeds to bitch because the vocals can't be made intelligible, blaming everything about the system, the setup, etc.

When his band hit the main stage later (Vdosc hang with D-show @ FOH), everyone agreed. The kid couldn't mix his way out of a wet paper bag. Said set was voted "worst of festival" by pretty much everyone.
 
I find most of the greeners coming out of college programs are full of bias, which doesn't work well combined with a lack of experience. Perhaps that's just my way of justfying spending three years cutting my teeth in a shitty club on an ancient Yamaha MC series instead of in a classroom on a state of the art digital.
 
Re: Too Old?

Gordon,

It's not the gear, it's the operator. You clearly understand how to set up and operate a sound system in a manner that produces a desirable and pleasing end result…that engineer needs to change his perceptions and be willing to take pointers from those more experienced.

It's nice learning about stuff in the classroom, but when you start to apply it to a real life gig, it's unnerving if you haven't been prepared for it. I think that's a failure of the educational establishment, personally, but also of the student to not take enough initiative in their own right.

Keep on truckin'…you (and your UPAs) are doing just fine. I'd take them pretty much any day.
 
Re: Too Old?

Pardon my ignorance - D&B? Nexo? I've never heard of either of them before so I have to assume its either because they're no good or they're so overwhelmingly good that you only ever see them on gigantic tours. Could someone choose the correct option for me? (I shouldn't judge a sound company by their website but both of them look like they were built by first year web development students.)

My first thought just based on the name and who was asking for them makes me think of some of those car-audio companies who "break into" the "pro audio" industry with their 6 inch carpeted subwoofers (I can't remember who, but I definitely saw a company touting one as a PA sub - had the handles and everything).


And agreed, its him. If he shows up at your gigs trying to influence your clientele just prove him wrong.
 
Re: Too Old?

Chris Clark said:
Pardon my ignorance - D&B? Nexo? I've never heard of either of them before so I have to assume its either because they're no good or they're so overwhelmingly good that you only ever see them on gigantic tours. Could someone choose the correct option for me? (I shouldn't judge a sound company by their website but both of them look like they were built by first year web development students.)

.
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these two manufacturers are very much in the latter category. Very, Very Nice speaker systems. Also very pricey. I've had the privilege to work on a LOT of the d&b stuff and it is pure audio pleasure. The Nexo I haven't had the privilege to experience, but they also are Rey highly respected....
 
Re: Too Old?

Chris as Brian said the D&B and Nexo kit are really good but they are expensive even in Europe and frankly for last night's event unless they were installed "complete overkill" is a phrase that comes to mind as were the UPAs to be honest.
Ive actually just had a text from the kid's Father apologising apparently someone from the event complained to him directly so all would seem to be working out nicely thankfully. G

Oh yeah the cello it turns out was borrowed and its over 120 years old that's even older than me!!!
 
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Re: Too Old?

Just to add another comment. ANybody that just "throws out a brand name" obviously has no clue. All brands have products that are better and worse than others in the line.

NEWS FLASH-not all products sound/perform the same-even from the same manufacturer and even within the same product line.

Just because it is a XYZ "brand" does not mean anything. And it could be the top of the line product they have. But that STILL does not mean it will do a particular job in a particular venue.

What if the "greatest product" doesn't have enough coverage to cover the audience? What if it is to wide and is splattering sound off of the walls? And so forth.

Unless they have a SPECIFIC suggestion (that is correct in the usage) then then are just trying to "name drop". And if they are not happy with what was brought-then THEY should have advanced the show. But that would required knowing what you are talking about----------------------------------------

HOWEVER-since the product provided was not what the operator wanted-that is a CLEAR opportunity to place ALL BLAME on the sound on the product-NOT the operator.

I have been in that "seat" waaaayyyy to many times. Some guy that doesn't have a clue-blames the gear. Funny how EVERY gig they do-the same problems exist-with different gear??????? What is common here????

Years ago I hired out a console that the sound guy HAD to have. When he got it-he had no idea how to operate it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Nobody had every given him one before-but he insisted on having it. And of course the sound was crap. Funny how every other band that played thought the same console and system sounded just fine-----------------

It is much easier to place blame on others-rather than look at your own shortcomings.
 
Re: Too Old?

gordon mcgregor said:
Chris as Brian said the D&B and Nexo kit are really good but they are expensive even in Europe and frankly for last night's event unless they were installed "complete overkill" is a phrase that comes to mind as were the UPAs to be honest.
Ive actually just had a text from the kid's Father apologising apparently someone from the event complained to him directly so all would seem to be working out nicely thankfully. G

Oh yeah the cello it turns out was borrowed and its over 120 years old that's even older than me!!!
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That is encouraging, perhaps you'll get to teach the kid too-you and the father should conspire to teach some chops and manners to the choob.(hope I remembered the correct useage for that slang term! ;>)

Best regards,

John
 
Re: Too Old?

Ivan Beaver said:
Years ago I hired out a console that the sound guy HAD to have. When he got it-he had no idea how to operate it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Nobody had every given him one before-but he insisted on having it. And of course the sound was crap. Funny how every other band that played thought the same console and system sounded just fine-----------------
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+1

More then a handful of times, I have found my self in the system tech spot for visiting BE's with similar attitudes. The provider goes out of his way to meet the rider that has some new, hip, must-have, whiz-bang piece of kit on it… and when the BE shows up, he's clueless as to how to operate it.

The real fun guys are the ones who point blank turn down the A&H ML4000, because they absolutely have to have a digital desk… we hire in the desk on their rider, and soundcheck turns into a non-stop Q&A / masterclass session, teaching them how to operate some of the most basic functions.

We've had the same crap with guys and analog outboard gear…. must have a pair of tube comps, then they don't know how to get signal through them. Gotta have that special Lexicon unit, then don't have a clue how to do anything with it. The list goes on and on.

The best ever was when we hired in an entire keyboard rig, only to find out when the band arrived that the keyboard player had passed away two years prior! That was a management gaff though, and the band was pretty surprised to see how old the rider being sent out to us was… they apologized for the trouble, and we all had a bit of a laugh while packing up the keyboards.

*I personally dig the UPA stuff, and would be happy to see it on any job (provided that it covers the room etc.) I certainly wouldn't run out and re-mortgage the house to buy into a d&b system, just to meet the fantasies of some dope carrying an SL24 for FOH… and I would have no problem telling him that I don't give a damn who his daddy is.
 
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