Mixing side of stage. How DO you deal with it?

L

LiamSmith

Freshman
Jun 5, 2012
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6
Ulster, NY
I've almost always had to mix side of stage, but, up until now it's always been on cheapo 90 degree boxes so I can sort of hear what's going on. I just recently got a slamming deal on qrx 212's and my first gig with them was mixing side of stage between the bathrooms and the bar in a crowded long rectangle of a bar.

The setup was absolutely ideal. Don't you just love bar/restaurants that want to have live music but continue to seat people right where the "stage" will be?

Anywho, my vantage point was about 5 feet from the side of the stage with the path the bathroom between me and the stage.

To me... My mix blew and I could never get those vocals on top... But then I'd walk out front and sure enough those vocals were sitting really pretty. I found myself taking a trip out front 2 to 3 times per song (a very difficult task in a packed bar), just to be sure, and then solely mixing on headphones when at the desk.

So, how DO you do it on narrower dispersion boxes?... and not pull your hair out.... while still trying to give the band and the audience the very best possible experience?
 
Re: Mixing side of stage. How DO you deal with it?

I spent a lot of my career mixing in the 'wrong' place. My trick was really more of a learned skill. I would do a few of the trips that Tim mentioned, but it was less about tweaking until it sounded good out front and more about taking mental snapshots of what the differences were between what the people were hearing and what I could hear. Once you get a mental picture of what it needs to sound like at your mix position in order for it to sound good out front, That becomes your target and you mix to that target rather than to make it 'sound good' where you're standing. A couple of trips out front throughout the night to double check your work, but mostly you can get the job done this way.
 
Re: Mixing side of stage. How DO you deal with it?

Uhhh? Use a monitor. I did a lot of weddings with a powered monitor... Hopefully something that sounds like FOH or can be made to. Not that complicated.
 
Re: Mixing side of stage. How DO you deal with it?

I have tried the monitor thing in the past. It really threw me off and weird-ed me out. After a little bit I just had to turn it off.

Is that strange?
 
Re: Mixing side of stage. How DO you deal with it?

John Chiara said:
So how would you handle a gig mixing monitors?
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To be honest. I have no idea. I've always done monitors from FOH... Because I'm teenie eensie weenie school. I gig, maybe, once every couple or few weeks.

I just put my name on some overhire lists. So, I hope to move boxes for someone who does monitors soon. Maybe they'll even let me coil their cables. I'd be in heaven... figuratively.
 
Re: Mixing side of stage. How DO you deal with it?

Tim Weaver said:
Walk out front. Walk back to mixer. Adjust. Walk out front. Walk back to mixer. Adjust. Etc, etc, etc....
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In the past this was the only way, and I've done a lot of miles in that way.
But now I love to use the ipad and mix in front of stage.
 
Re: Mixing side of stage. How DO you deal with it?

charge them mileage for all the extra walking!
Brian's answer is more of how I handle it - mental picture of the back of room vs what I hear at mix.
Sometimes lots of trips to the back is just not feasible - crowded to an extent that I'm away from the board too long, and always tripping over and jostling the same folks.
 
Re: Mixing side of stage. How DO you deal with it?

Lisa Lane-Collins said:
So used to going for walks into the audience to check levels I do it even when I'm mixing in the sweet spot :-D
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Very good point Lisa. I always always always take many walks to hear what the audience is hearing, especially close to the stage and wherever the majority of the people are gathered. You just never know until you check it for yourself. You can have a mode or null that you would never know about until you are physically there. I always remember I am mixing for those folks who actually paid to be there. I use the method Brian speaks of taking a reference against what I am hearing at the mix position. Usually it will just be one thing or two like more or less sub or the top being hot around 2k or maybe the vocals being a little underpowered or something like that. Now that we have iPad remote available those walks I take can be much more productive. I have stressed taking a walk into the audience to all of the engineers who have ever worked with me. I believe it is one of the most important things you can do no matter where the mix position is.
 
Re: Mixing side of stage. How DO you deal with it?

LiamSmith said:
.... while still trying to give the band and the audience the very best possible experience?
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Just wait until someone demands that you mix from behind the stage. Yes it's happened to me (I guess I'm too ugly 8O~8-O~:shock: ), and to make matters worse, it was a one-off with a big band that featured lots of unannounced solos.

Frankly, when somebody makes what I consider to be an unreasonable request, my GAFF* drops a bit.

A monitor pointing at me, with its own volume control is essential, although getting the balance right is tricky. I find I often have to have it much louder than I would normally be comfortable listening to. If you can find something voiced similarly, that's ideal. The good news is, you're probably the person in the room who cares the most about the vocals being intelligible. 8)~:cool:~:cool:

Of course, current technology (iPad and a digital console) allows me to move out front without giving up too many features of the console. In fact, I'll sometimes opt to do that myself, rather than running a snake and having to negotiate for FOH space in a somewhat hostile environment.

GTD

*Give A F%$# Factor
 
I have usually used the calibrated ear method and I will say I prefer side stage to most theater type projection booths.

It is only recently I have been doing some wireless mixing with the mixer side stage and that definitely helps with the bar scene.
 
Re: Mixing side of stage. How DO you deal with it?

I mix via iPad and a StudioLive 24.4.2 or a 16.0.2 for small stuff.
 
Re: Mixing side of stage. How DO you deal with it?

iPad or tablet is the way to go, if you can afford it. Hopefully, if you're doing wedding and corporate events than they pay well enough to make the leap.
 
Re: Mixing side of stage. How DO you deal with it?

A good pair of isolation headphones are a big help for some things in this situation also. Things like multi vocal balance and effects levels can be adjusted quickly and accurately through the phones monitoring the main output, actually much more accurately than listening to the mains in a sweet spot 75 or more feet away. You are not dealing with any room anomalies or reflected sound. You can get a pretty good mix on the phones and adjust for the things that have stage volume. A quick walk out front will tell you where you are. Make your adjustments then walk back out and check it again. When you get it where you like it put the phones back on and note the relative volumes of the the things with stage volume like guitars and drums. You should be ready to go for the rest of the show doing any additional balancing through the phones. Check out front every so often but usually you will be fine.
 
Re: Mixing side of stage. How DO you deal with it?

Eric Cagle said:
A good pair of isolation headphones are a big help for some things in this situation also. Things like multi vocal balance and effects levels can be adjusted quickly and accurately through the phones monitoring the main output, actually much more accurately than listening to the mains in a sweet spot 75 or more feet away. You are not dealing with any room anomalies or reflected sound. You can get a pretty good mix on the phones and adjust for the things that have stage volume. A quick walk out front will tell you where you are. Make your adjustments then walk back out and check it again. When you get it where you like it put the phones back on and note the relative volumes of the the things with stage volume like guitars and drums. You should be ready to go for the rest of the show doing any additional balancing through the phones. Check out front every so often but usually you will be fine.
Click to expand...

I use GK Ultraphones for this and to do live broadcast audio. Yes, there are "better" headphones for audiophile purposes, but for excluding room noise and working at an "ear-saving" level, isolation phones are your best bet. It doesn't matter how good it sounds if you have to crank them up 10dB over the bleed from the outside.
 
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