Mixing side of stage. How DO you deal with it?

Re: Mixing side of stage. How DO you deal with it?

Here is a trick you can do to make a side stage mixing experience much more enjoyable if you have an extra post fade aux send available and a good pair of isolation headphones. After you get everything set up and dialed in set up your extra post fade mix at unity all the way across. Put the phones on, solo up the mix and run up the guitars and things that are light in the mains. Now you have a nice mix to listen to and you can even ride the leads and solos with the main faders and have a good representation of what the audience is hearing. I use to run my own mix on one of the extra sends when I would be at the monitor position as well to give me something nice to listen to when I was not tweaking something for one of the players. I was out with some really great bands and always had a smile on my face listening to some fantastic acts from what I considered the best seat in the house.
 
Re: Mixing side of stage. How DO you deal with it?

For me, I find the prep work I do before downbeat plays a big role. Given that I do a lot of wedding work, there are times where they have the dreaded "ceremony and reception in the same room," which gives me under an hour to go from zero to ready to go for a seven-piece band. Those are always tricky because I feel like I have to spend time correcting for things that would have been set if I had had enough time to really get some tuning time in. If I know that several of my go-to tracks sound right on my system, mixing side stage becomes a bit easier.

I've met a few people that claim they can tell how things sound out front while next to the stage via reflections, but frankly, I don't buy it. You can get some clues as to balance from headphones, but at the end of the day, I don't think there's much of a substitute for being in front of the speakers. Being able to mix on a tablet is a godsend if you can afford it, but otherwise, just be prepared to take many walks. Also, be sure to stand out there for a minute or two once in a while. I've found that when I'm doing the "back and forth," sometimes I'm not out there long enough to get a good sense of what it sounds like.
 
Re: Mixing side of stage. How DO you deal with it?

Dick Rees said:
I use GK Ultraphones for this and to do live broadcast audio. Yes, there are "better" headphones for audiophile purposes, but for excluding room noise and working at an "ear-saving" level, isolation phones are your best bet. It doesn't matter how good it sounds if you have to crank them up 10dB over the bleed from the outside.
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I have had really good luck with the Vic Firth stereo isolation headphones for the last 7-8 years. They only cost around $60 and are probably at least as accurate as most PA systems if not more. They have always translated well for me, especially for vocal and effects balance.
 
Re: Mixing side of stage. How DO you deal with it?

ive done 1500 side of stage gigs for the biggest bands at the biggest weddings. We generally mix with hand signals and a guy at the board and one in the crowd. after a while, you learn what its supposed to sound like at the side of stage when its right in front of it. Still not that fun to mix and eqing takes a lot of walking and work. Now I mix them on an ls9 and an ipad and its so much more fun.
 
Re: Mixing side of stage. How DO you deal with it?

I mixed from side stage the other night, personally i dont really like it , but the job called for it. I have rather be faceing the stage in front but all i done was just walked to the front of stage and listened a bit and mad sure everything sounded good, Luckily it was a stand up comedian that i was mixing. but all went well, but any other time i perfr in front unless the job calls for other wise. :)
 
Re: Mixing side of stage. How DO you deal with it?

Geoff Doane said:
Just wait until someone demands that you mix from behind the stage. Yes it's happened to me (I guess I'm too ugly 8O~8-O~:shock: ), and to make matters worse, it was a one-off with a big band that featured lots of unannounced solos.

Frankly, when somebody makes what I consider to be an unreasonable request, my GAFF* drops a bit.

A monitor pointing at me, with its own volume control is essential, although getting the balance right is tricky. I find I often have to have it much louder than I would normally be comfortable listening to. If you can find something voiced similarly, that's ideal. The good news is, you're probably the person in the room who cares the most about the vocals being intelligible. 8)~8-)~:cool:

Of course, current technology (iPad and a digital console) allows me to move out front without giving up too many features of the console. In fact, I'll sometimes opt to do that myself, rather than running a snake and having to negotiate for FOH space in a somewhat hostile environment.

GTD

*Give A F%$# Factor
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Been there and done that geoff, Mine was a graduation with 2 layers of lattice work between me and the presentation, so all in all i was clueless of what was going on. LOL.
 
Re: Mixing side of stage. How DO you deal with it?

I once had a show with 2 side by side stages with 12 bands and the mix position was behind the stages in a tent. To complicate matters further it rained for about a third of the show. We used a cell phone to an engineer who walked around out front. It wasn't my gig or idea but as always we pulled it off and a good time was had by all. The twin stages was pretty cool with no lapse in music between bands. The mixing behind the stages had its challenges but at least we have a good story to tell and we didn't have to run a snake to either backline.
 
Re: Mixing side of stage. How DO you deal with it?

O
Eric Cagle said:
I once had a show with 2 side by side stages with 12 bands and the mix position was behind the stages in a tent. To complicate matters further it rained for about a third of the show. We used a cell phone to an engineer who walked around out front. It wasn't my gig or idea but as always we pulled it off and a good time was had by all. The twin stages was pretty cool with no lapse in music between bands. The mixing behind the stags had its challenges but at least we have a good story to tell and we didn't have to run a snake to either backline.
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Be easier to stick a wireless mic out above the crowd and just solo it for reference. My experience tells me a lot can be lost I translation plus everyone mixes differently. I may deal with a balance issue in a completely different way than someone else.
 
Re: Mixing side of stage. How DO you deal with it?

John Chiara said:
O

Be easier to stick a wireless mic out above the crowd and just solo it for reference. My experience tells me a lot can be lost I translation plus everyone mixes differently. I may deal with a balance issue in a completely different way than someone else.
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Actually the gig was really smooth after we sound checked the first 2 bands. We used hand signals during the check but we figured out real quick that was not going to work during the show so we went to the cell phones. When I was mixing I walked around front a few times and was surprised it sounded as good as it did. If you think about it, if you are gained in and equalized correctly most of the faders fall almost in a straight line a few db below unity. That has at least been my experience. I have to mention all 3 of us who were engineering had worked together at that particular club for the last few years. Also all of the bands were hand picked by us and we had each mixed most of them several times before this show. It was all southern rock and country for the most part so not really a big deal. I was actually chief engineer at that time for the company who supplied the rig for the show and knew it to the point of actually setting much of the gain and EQ before we even ran a line check. Other than a guitar or keyboard up or down a little most of the bands were good to go from the last act. Some of the backline was the same which helped. We did not sound check between bands we just muted one stage inputs and unmuted the other stage and went for it. It was about a 1-2 minute change over including the announcer whose wireless mic was always hot and ready to go when he turned it on. We were all young and dumb and it never occurred to us there would be any problems so there were not any. Headphones, cellphones, and good musicians and singers did the trick. Probably the good players part was most of it.
 
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Re: Mixing side of stage. How DO you deal with it?

Eric Cagle said:
I have had really good luck with the Vic Firth stereo isolation headphones for the last 7-8 years. They only cost around $60 and are probably at least as accurate as most PA systems if not more. They have always translated well for me, especially for vocal and effects balance.
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I also use Vic Firth's..... They are not as "speedo" as all of the newer (more expensive) "cans" but they work well for me...no complaints thus far...


Mike M
 
Re: Mixing side of stage. How DO you deal with it?

This is why I bought my Mackie DL1608 mixer - I have two control surfaces (AKA iPads) for it, one stays docked and one is wireless via 5 GHz 8)~8-)~:cool: .
 
Re: Mixing side of stage. How DO you deal with it?

Jay Barracato said:
While most of us probably think of mixing as a solo endeavor, co- mixing with someone you trust can be rewarding.
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co-mixing does work - with the right people. Sometimes even with the right folks, it can be nerve-wracking and stressful. Different workflow, personality differences, but still a respect for the other's work. Letting go (sharing) of that control is indeed, tough. Those feelings are replaced with the rewarding feeling you mention when we realize the evening was a success.

I also employ what I call "spies" - folks, usually musicians I know and trust - who are in the audience and visible from my mix position. Couple hand signals worked out ahead, keeps me pointed right.
 
Re: Mixing side of stage. How DO you deal with it?

Jay Barracato said:
While most of us probably think of mixing as a solo endeavor, co- mixing with someone you trust can be rewarding.
Click to expand...

co-mixing does work - with the right people. Sometimes even with the right folks, it can be nerve-wracking and stressful. Different workflow, personality differences, but still a respect for the other's work. Letting go (sharing) of that control is indeed, tough. Those feelings are replaced with the rewarding feeling you mention when we realize the evening was a success.

I also employ what I call "spies" - folks, usually musicians I know and trust - who are in the audience and visible from my mix position. Couple hand signals worked out ahead, keeps me pointed right.
 
Re: Mixing side of stage. How DO you deal with it?

frank kayser said:
co-mixing does work - with the right people. Sometimes even with the right folks, it can be nerve-wracking and stressful. Different workflow, personality differences, but still a respect for the other's work. Letting go (sharing) of that control is indeed, tough. Those feelings are replaced with the rewarding feeling you mention when we realize the evening was a success.

I also employ what I call "spies" - folks, usually musicians I know and trust - who are in the audience and visible from my mix position. Couple hand signals worked out ahead, keeps me pointed right.
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With a good set of ears out front and a few simple hand signals it's not that hard.

A few years back at a local festival, I was called on at the last moment to do a couple of sets with a prestigious traditional band. There was no time to do anything except throw up a couple of SOS, hook up a MixWiz side of stage and go. The wife of one of the musicians went out front and gave me hand signals. It took about two numbers to get it dialed in, then she would occasionally wave and we'd tweak something.

People said it was likely the best set of the festival, but I think that it was the band performance they were referring to. Suffice it to say that mixing from the side with good ears out front did not detract from the performance.........
 
Re: Mixing side of stage. How DO you deal with it?

Having had to mix side-of-stage more than I'd like, my short recipe is the following;

1. Digital desk with remote control - great for tweaking from the secret spot out in front.
2. Good headphones that you know.
3. Knowing the room (if you can)
4. If you have an offsider who you trust the ears of, use them.
5. Use the above to get a feel of how the side of stage differs fro the room. Once you know that, you find yourself leaving the desk less and less.
 
Re: Mixing side of stage. How DO you deal with it?

I am going to point out one obvious thing that no one has mentioned. For all of the control freak engineers (and you know who you are), when you get the sound right LEAVE IT ALONE! Contrary to what some believe you don't have to be glued to the console for the entire show making 1/2db changes every few seconds. The side of stage mix position is no where near ideal and is a complete compromise (except for running monitors) we all know that so DEAL WITH IT! Go out front and make your tweaks if you need any and then let the band do their thing and check it out front again every so often and make your way to the food and drink table while you are out there if there is one. Don't stress out, eat a cookie and be happy! All the above mentioned methods will help get a mix going in the right direction fast.
 
Re: Mixing side of stage. How DO you deal with it?

Eric Cagle said:
I am going to point out one obvious thing that no one has mentioned. For all of the control freak engineers (and you know who you are), when you get the sound right LEAVE IT ALONE! Contrary to what some believe you don't have to be glued to the console for the entire show making 1/2db changes every few seconds. The side of stage mix position is no where near ideal and is a complete compromise (except for running monitors) we all know that so DEAL WITH IT! Go out front and make your tweaks if you need any and then let the band do their thing and check it out front again every so often and make your way to the food and drink table while you are out there if there is one. Don't stress out, eat a cookie and be happy! All the above mentioned methods will help get a mix going in the right direction fast.
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I heart this answer, eric. I wish I could. I'm too much of a worry-wort/control freak to not be near the faders as much as possible.
 
Re: Mixing side of stage. How DO you deal with it?

Eric Cagle said:
I am going to point out one obvious thing that no one has mentioned. For all of the control freak engineers (and you know who you are), when you get the sound right LEAVE IT ALONE! Contrary to what some believe you don't have to be glued to the console for the entire show making 1/2db changes every few seconds. The side of stage mix position is no where near ideal and is a complete compromise (except for running monitors) we all know that so DEAL WITH IT! Go out front and make your tweaks if you need any and then let the band do their thing and check it out front again every so often and make your way to the food and drink table while you are out there if there is one. Don't stress out, eat a cookie and be happy! All the above mentioned methods will help get a mix going in the right direction fast.
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+1000

In my former role as a system guy for a sound co, I babysat a LOT of BEs. I learned over time that the really good, experienced guys tweaked for five to ten minutes and then just stood there only occasionally touching something to make a minor tweak. The noobs chased their tails for their band's entire set. Maybe they thought they were being paid by the fader move....
 
Re: Mixing side of stage. How DO you deal with it?

brian maddox said:
+1000

In my former role as a system guy for a sound co, I babysat a LOT of BEs. I learned over time that the really good, experienced guys tweaked for five to ten minutes and then just stood there only occasionally touching something to make a minor tweak. The noobs chased their tails for their band's entire set. Maybe they thought they were being paid by the fader move....
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Yup, unless something is changing on stage (instruments, lead, positioning) then there shouldn't be much need to change the mix.

Unless it wasn't right in the first place.
 
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