PK Sound

[Tim Duffin]

Re: PK Sound

Tim, I suppose if your definition of “little better than crack heads with a tablesaw” equates to 2 Professional Engineers, 2 Electrical Engineering graduates (EIT’s), a solidworks designer with 5 years experience and a senior software developer with 12 years experience then I guess so….

It’s no secret that we are a young company and there are amazing sound systems on the market developed by the icons of our industry. I respect every one of their achievements, they make damn good gear! I don't believe anything is served by product bashing and am always open to constructive criticism.

It’s also true the product you see on the road, touring the USA with some of the biggest EDM names out there, are some of the first products developed by PK, when we were but a little production house in Canada with an R&D team of one. We think it’s not bad, we know there is always room for improvement and we want to do much better!

Our R&D team has grown dramatically even in this past year and we are passionately perusing the best products we can develop. The next few years will be fun and for those who have an open mind I truly hope we can impress.

Aaron I appreciate your honest review of our products, I hope it wasn't clouded by the type of music or comments here and I still invite you to contact me directly so we can apply the specific details of your feedback =]

One of our current major initiatives is to develop a solid BETA team of industry professionals who can provide, impartial, invaluable feedback.

Interesting.

Please address the claim I made about your company copying other people's designs. Specifically your subs, which coincidentally are not listed on your website any longer.

I would like to hear PK sound not sound like crap at the How Weird Street Faire. But I think I am going to be disappointed. Look for me while you are there, I will be on 2nd street with the JBL SRX system. It should be easy to find, listen for non-dubstep and look around for lots of cute girls and people with real jobs. Or, you could just follow the crowds sprinting away from the PK system crying out in anger and frustration...

~:-D~:grin:

 

[Craig Hauber]

Re: PK Sound

I don't buy that for a minute.

Ok I guess I'm an idiot then.

Now point me to the correct DSP that magically adds larger amplifiers to racks and adds beefier midrange components to otherwise lacking main PA stacks?

(Maybe I should switch my large-venue matrix DSP rig to Mediamatrix if it can do that)

As has been commented in here by others, you can tune a great rig for live music or you can tune a rig for EDM. Now, what you really want to do is be able to do both at the same time. There are a handful of DSP solutions out there (some better than others, and yes I am highly biased ;-) ) that will allow you to set up parallel processing paths. You can tune one path for the live music applications such that anything entering the system via one set of inputs is properly processed for great live music; then you set up a second set of inputs and process them to get the most out of the EDM genre recorded music.

As long as you are dealing with top shelf loudspeakers that can be tuned for either application, there is no reason they can't be tuned to do both at the same time.

In short: Music coming from the DJ rig is properly processed for EDM and music coming from your live console is properly processed for live. This can be done with proper DSP application and it is VERY effective.

I do exactly this and have been for years and lately have been finding the DJ input settings are getting very similar to the live-mix settings when proper PA gear is installed.

No need for "magic" EDM-only boxes.

Maybe I'm getting old by liking yesterday's "electronic performers", but Tiesto and Oakenfold used the same Vdosc rig I've deployed for Rock, Reggae, Mexican bands and symphonies and were quite happy with it. But that was years ago, perhaps modern EDM is "special" and only sounds good through boxes that aren't boring and plain looking?

 

[Spenser Hamilton]

Re: PK Sound

You need to get the fact that EDM music business has its own "rider friendly" systems. And those are not usually the main PA brands that rock the live world.
When i DJ knows there will be a Funkion One, or Void system in the club, he knows what to expect.

I know you read the thread over on PSW about Ultra (in fact I think you had some input), looks like JBL and DB are quite capable of hanging with Void.

 

[Jeff Kenney]

Re: PK Sound

Craig Tiesto has spec'd VDOSC for years.. but that is a big beefy box with dual 15's in it.. He does not like midsized or compact line arrays and had several problems with those types of systems with his music.

 

[Josh Millward]

Re: PK Sound

Ok I guess I'm an idiot then.

Idiots? Where? No, I wasn't calling anyone names...

Now point me to the correct DSP that magically adds larger amplifiers to racks and adds beefier midrange components to otherwise lacking main PA stacks?

(Maybe I should switch my large-venue matrix DSP rig to Mediamatrix if it can do that)

Don't we all wish it was that simple.

I do exactly this and have been for years and lately have been finding the DJ input settings are getting very similar to the live-mix settings when proper PA gear is installed.

No need for "magic" EDM-only boxes.

What I was trying to get across is the concept of doing separate "A-Chain" and "B-Chain" processing for different sources depending on what you are doing at a given time.

People who are stuck using the low cost audio DSP boxes often do not realize the extreme flexibility that can be had with a higher end DSP that allows you to assemble your own processing chain. In this case, having one processing chain for DJ music and another for live sources is something that has been done for quite a while in a lot of the larger scale venues like sports stadiums. They can make the canned playback sound one way without negatively impacting the live announcer's voice. This can easily be extended to what we are discussing in this thread and can allow you to install and use one set of racks and stacks while doing two totally different and disparate functions.

Maybe I'm getting old by liking yesterday's "electronic performers", but Tiesto and Oakenfold used the same Vdosc rig I've deployed for Rock, Reggae, Mexican bands and symphonies and were quite happy with it. But that was years ago, perhaps modern EDM is "special" and only sounds good through boxes that aren't boring and plain looking?

Yes, often times if you just bring enough rig for the gig, there isn't a problem. However, EDM events do require more rig for a given gig than the typical rock event does so proper planning can go a long way.

 

[Art Welter]

Re: PK Sound

Please address the claim I made about your company copying other people's designs. Specifically your subs, which coincidentally are not listed on your website any longer.

Tim,

The PK CX800, listed on their website, like most good touring subs, uses long throw 18" woofers with a large port area and a cabinet built to truck integers.

Nearly every manufacturer of subs has something similar, though many "big name" 3 letter manufacturers don't use as capable transducers filling the 18" holes.
They all look pretty much the same, other than minor cosmetic (and tuning) differences, because they are all constrained by the same demands.

To say that PK copied this sub design is akin to saying all automobiles copied Mercedes (Daimler) Benz because they use four wheels, a steering wheel and an internal combustion engine.

Art

 

[Marjan Milosevic]

Re: PK Sound

Art, i think he is referring to a sub that is not anymore on their we site and it was essentially a LAB sub. And they have called it their own design box.

 

[Marjan Milosevic]

Re: PK Sound

I know you read the thread over on PSW about Ultra (in fact I think you had some input), looks like JBL and DB are quite capable of hanging with Void.

My comment was more towards club installs not festivals.

 

[Nick Pignetti]

Re: PK Sound

I've been following this thread for a bit and I wanted to chime in.

This past weekend we were so graciously invited by the folks at PK Sound to demo their rig that is currently out on the Excision tour. (Special thanks to Rory! This was on the Washington D.C. stop)

I'll comment (unbiased, I promise) on the rig in a second, but first and foremost I want to say that the people at PK Sound are first class. Welcoming, fun, helpful, HONEST, not pretentious, and even grateful that we were interested in what they have going on. I felt like they are the type of company that is going places in this industry and even though they are a young company, I wouldn't have any problem buying into the company what-so-ever. These feelings were solidified in the entire process of dealing with PK from our initial e-mails, to going to the stop on the tour to check out the rig, until even after the show keeping in contact with their people. I can't say enough positive things about the experience we had.

Now, the cabinets... I will say that the top boxes (we heard both the full-size and small format array's) left some to be desired. I felt, as others have commented, there was a lack of mid-range capability. It's also clear that the folks at PK are aware that there are some improvements to be made and I believe they genuinely want to make those changes. I also firmly believe they will. I was very impressed with the subs. They hit hard, they went low. We ran sweeps through them and it was impressive. It's no secret they were designed with pre-recorded content in mind (specifically EDM) but we played a variety of tracks from many different genres and I think the subs handled it well. They let us hear in groups of four, up to the full compliment of 20 cabs, and I was impressed at both groupings. Truthfully, PK is a company to watch.

 

[Marjan Milosevic]

Re: PK Sound

Nick, there are not many subs that i am aware of that will suck in a stack of 20 boxes

 

[Nick Pignetti]

Re: PK Sound

Nick, there are not many subs that i am aware of that will suck in a stack of 20 boxes

Agreed. Which is precisely the reason we asked to hear in groups of 4. =)

 

[Jeff Babcock]

Re: PK Sound

Tim,

The PK CX800, listed on their website, like most good touring subs, uses long throw 18" woofers with a large port area and a cabinet built to truck integers.

Nearly every manufacturer of subs has something similar, though many "big name" 3 letter manufacturers don't use as capable transducers filling the 18" holes.
They all look pretty much the same, other than minor cosmetic (and tuning) differences, because they are all constrained by the same demands.

To say that PK copied this sub design is akin to saying all automobiles copied Mercedes (Daimler) Benz because they use four wheels, a steering wheel and an internal combustion engine.

Art

Art, you could save yourself some time and effort in the future by adding Tim to your ignore list as I have (long ago). He has a remarkable talent for unintentional trolling.

While you're at it, that Benit Prezcawt guy should be worth your consideration for the ignore list too. Any guy who takes his girl to see monster trucks and has an affinity for Hawaiian shirts is clearly unstable and best to avoid. ~:-D~:grin:

 

[Art Welter]

Re: PK Sound

Art, you could save yourself some time and effort in the future by adding Tim to your ignore list as I have (long ago). He has a remarkable talent for unintentional trolling.

While you're at it, that Benit Prezcawt guy should be worth your consideration for the ignore list too. Any guy who takes his girl to see monster trucks and has an affinity for Hawaiian shirts is clearly unstable and best to avoid. ~:-D~:grin:

Jeff,

Have to disagree on both counts, the former has an unremarkable talent for intentional trolling, and the latter shares my affinity both for attire and entertainment, and supplies me with gun ammo when supplies are short here in the high desert.

Art

 

[Tim Duffin]

Re: PK Sound

Tim,

The PK CX800, listed on their website, like most good touring subs, uses long throw 18" woofers with a large port area and a cabinet built to truck integers.

Nearly every manufacturer of subs has something similar, though many "big name" 3 letter manufacturers don't use as capable transducers filling the 18" holes.
They all look pretty much the same, other than minor cosmetic (and tuning) differences, because they are all constrained by the same demands.

To say that PK copied this sub design is akin to saying all automobiles copied Mercedes (Daimler) Benz because they use four wheels, a steering wheel and an internal combustion engine.

Art

I should point out to you that Daimler did not invent the steering wheel. That is an american invention. And that Canada has invented nothing of interest since its inception (speakers included), so lay off JBL. I should further point out that no 18" sub currently manufactured meets or exceeds the capabilities of a JBL 2269. The Neo-Drive subs are no longer being manufactured, so you can cross that off your list of comebacks. What JBL is not is cheap--they don't compete on price points because they do not HAVE to. Meanwhile, other "manufacturers" who buy crap from china and stuff it in a box made from home depot wood DO, and this is why they will never amount to anything. If you have to compete with pricing, your product is garbage or easily duplicable--both non-desirable traits.

And yeah, the sub you found on the site is the wrong one...duh.

 

[Marjan Milosevic]

Re: PK Sound

Actually what JBL is, it is overpriced for what it is.
In the last 20 years they have not made a single product that is revolutionary in any possible way. They have stole the Lacoustic VDOSC concept and made a line array box that took them a good 8 or so years to make it sound right.
They have stepped back to the old 20+ years old technology for their new STX line just to make more profit because they can no longer compete with the competition. And yet the new line with ferrite drivers is more expensive then the neo series.
Their new HF drivers are essentially a BMS technology.
The subs are so last decade that i can not even start comparing.
They have made a pathetic job on the Marquise dance club series boxes that it is ridiculous. And at the end, if someone is getting China BS components and putting them in their box, well that is essentially how i would describe JBL because it is all engineered and made in China now.

 

[Tim McCulloch]

Re: PK Sound

And at the end, if someone is getting China BS components and putting them in their box, well that is essentially how i would describe JBL because it is all engineered and made in China now.

That is incorrect, at least as kind of absolute statement. Professional transducer design & engineering is still done in California (which may or may not be part of the USA, depending on one's political bent), and final assembly and testing of those transducers is done at the Harman campus in Northridge, CA. Components come from China, Mexico and USA.

 

[Tim Duffin]

Re: PK Sound

Actually what JBL is, it is overpriced for what it is.
In the last 20 years they have not made a single product that is revolutionary in any possible way. They have stole the Lacoustic VDOSC concept and made a line array box that took them a good 8 or so years to make it sound right.
They have stepped back to the old 20+ years old technology for their new STX line just to make more profit because they can no longer compete with the competition. And yet the new line with ferrite drivers is more expensive then the neo series.
Their new HF drivers are essentially a BMS technology.
The subs are so last decade that i can not even start comparing.
They have made a pathetic job on the Marquise dance club series boxes that it is ridiculous. And at the end, if someone is getting China BS components and putting them in their box, well that is essentially how i would describe JBL because it is all engineered and made in China now.

Marjan,

Are you saying that any single piece of a JBL line array comes from China?

 

[Marjan Milosevic]

Re: PK Sound

Yes i am. They have closed the factory in Mexico and moved everything in Cina.

 

[Matthew Knischewsky]

Re: PK Sound

Dear all small time loudspeaker manufacturers,

Prove it to me.

Sincerely,
Matthew Knischewsky.


PS I think it's great that you have engineers on staff, and experienced live sound people, or electronics people or whatever people you have. It's really great. The big boy companies have those people too, just more of them than you. Those people are probably as good as your people, give or take so I respect that you have at least some. I'm usually really open minded but I'm also practical when it comes to purchases that affect my business. Also, there's other considerations than sound quality alone. So if you wouldn't mind, prove to me why I should buy your speakers over someone else's...I should mention those someone else's speakers I have heard in multiple venues in multiple locations across a few continents with predictable results.

It's going to take a little more than an afternoon demo at my shop later this week and if you don't mind please leave the marketing guy at home.

 

[Per Søvik]

Re: PK Sound

Actually what JBL is, it is overpriced for what it is.

JBL might not be maximum bang for the buck, but it is damn near close. JBL is not expensive compared to other manufacturers, and that orange badge still means something to most people, and not many will turn down a JBL rig even if they might prefer something else. If I spend my money with JBL, I know I'm not wasting my money. I would prefer a d&b, L'acoustics or Nexo rig any day, and might even prefer spending my money on a Electrovoice rig for price/performance.
With JBL and a couple of others, the price of the box often doesn't exceed the combined price of the components inside, something that can not be said for what is on offer from all these manufacturers with lots of claims but very little reputation. Furthermore, I know I can sell off a JBL rig, not so much a Gigawizz rig