Why friends don't let friends rig..... drunk
- Thread starter Shane Presley
- Start date
Re: Why friends don't let friends rig..... drunk
That's why you don't let the Chinese truss manufacturer's sales rep design your rig for you.
That's why you don't let the Chinese truss manufacturer's sales rep design your rig for you.
Re: Why friends don't let friends rig..... drunk
Wow. Did they actually let the show go on like that??
There's a guy sitting on a chair surrounded by people in the 4th picture. By the 8th picture, they all have scattered, leaving him sitting there alone under the truss. Did he survive?
Wow. Did they actually let the show go on like that??
There's a guy sitting on a chair surrounded by people in the 4th picture. By the 8th picture, they all have scattered, leaving him sitting there alone under the truss. Did he survive?
Re: Why friends don't let friends rig..... drunk
*repeats under breath* this cannot be real this cannot be real this cannot be real...
*repeats under breath* this cannot be real this cannot be real this cannot be real...
Re: Why friends don't let friends rig..... drunk
The bowing truss and how far forward the load is are certainly scary.
What I'm not sure of is what's being shown in the photo's of the motor/upright connections points (#'s 2,3,6). All I can figure is that the "connector block" is being use wrong in some way.
Philip "knows enough about rigging to know he only knows how to do very simple rigging safely" Roberts
The bowing truss and how far forward the load is are certainly scary.
What I'm not sure of is what's being shown in the photo's of the motor/upright connections points (#'s 2,3,6). All I can figure is that the "connector block" is being use wrong in some way.
Philip "knows enough about rigging to know he only knows how to do very simple rigging safely" Roberts
Re: Why friends don't let friends rig..... drunk
Phil. Having the small steel picking up the truss is metal on metal. Thats a no no. It should be a gak flex steel/spanset hybrid. And its choked pretty tight and it not even grabbing the whole truss, not putting it into compression but loading the top chords only. The motor chain itself is supposed to be fed over the top head through the two wheels hook on the wheel block and the motor anchored down at the bottom of the truss. The black "legs" are not meant or even designed for this trussing. Id also bet that the 1' piece that "juts" out from the wheel block isnt supposed to be there either. The truss should be bolted TO the wheel block. Also did you notice the yellow ratchet strap acting as the cantilever load transfer device...,, lol
Phil. Having the small steel picking up the truss is metal on metal. Thats a no no. It should be a gak flex steel/spanset hybrid. And its choked pretty tight and it not even grabbing the whole truss, not putting it into compression but loading the top chords only. The motor chain itself is supposed to be fed over the top head through the two wheels hook on the wheel block and the motor anchored down at the bottom of the truss. The black "legs" are not meant or even designed for this trussing. Id also bet that the 1' piece that "juts" out from the wheel block isnt supposed to be there either. The truss should be bolted TO the wheel block. Also did you notice the yellow ratchet strap acting as the cantilever load transfer device...,, lol
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Re: Why friends don't let friends rig..... drunk
One of the most curious things about this forum to me is the number and frequency of posts that include pictures of poorly executed rigging for public mockery. I frequently (privately) feel ashamed that I can't join in the jocularity because I don't understand what aspects of many of these photos are being mocked. I assume if someone took the time to post pictures there must be something wrong, since there are scant few photos of correctly constructed rigging posted.
One of the most curious things about this forum to me is the number and frequency of posts that include pictures of poorly executed rigging for public mockery. I frequently (privately) feel ashamed that I can't join in the jocularity because I don't understand what aspects of many of these photos are being mocked. I assume if someone took the time to post pictures there must be something wrong, since there are scant few photos of correctly constructed rigging posted.
Re: Why friends don't let friends rig..... drunk
Jeff, I suspect it's like the news in general, death, kidnapping and shooting are "sexy" where as children who make it to school everyday and planes that land just fine doesn't "sell"... Anything I have learned rigging wise I've learned by being shown not through the internet or books etc, which makes me feel almost like it's a black art that is passed down over the ages.... Stuff like the bending overloaded truss is a clear and obvious violation. Looking at that set-up over-all did you get a sense you would want to stand / work /perform under it, or run like hell... if your gut doesn't tell you to run like hell, you probably should do some more digging. I don't claim to know everything about rigging, but I do know enough that this company should have gotten a slap up side the head for erecting that POS. Now, off to find a picture of a properly deployed climbing truss rig.
Jeff, I suspect it's like the news in general, death, kidnapping and shooting are "sexy" where as children who make it to school everyday and planes that land just fine doesn't "sell"... Anything I have learned rigging wise I've learned by being shown not through the internet or books etc, which makes me feel almost like it's a black art that is passed down over the ages.... Stuff like the bending overloaded truss is a clear and obvious violation. Looking at that set-up over-all did you get a sense you would want to stand / work /perform under it, or run like hell... if your gut doesn't tell you to run like hell, you probably should do some more digging. I don't claim to know everything about rigging, but I do know enough that this company should have gotten a slap up side the head for erecting that POS. Now, off to find a picture of a properly deployed climbing truss rig.
Re: Why friends don't let friends rig..... drunk
I agree. While in some cases, it's obvious what is wrong, there are other things that are more obscure that most wouldn't realize. Simple captions for each picture explaining what is wrong, and a suggested solution would be much more valuable as a learning tool.
Eg, picture 2 is showing how a metal strap is wrapped around only the top 2 rails of the truss. Metal on metal is wrong for that, and not having the strap support the bottom rail of the truss puts added stress on the top rails, significantly reducing the weight. A solution to fix this is to use a spanset that can wrap the 4 rails properly. The hoist motor positioning is not something I'm familiar with on this type of setup, so I won't comment on exactly how that's supposed to be placed.
I agree. While in some cases, it's obvious what is wrong, there are other things that are more obscure that most wouldn't realize. Simple captions for each picture explaining what is wrong, and a suggested solution would be much more valuable as a learning tool.
Eg, picture 2 is showing how a metal strap is wrapped around only the top 2 rails of the truss. Metal on metal is wrong for that, and not having the strap support the bottom rail of the truss puts added stress on the top rails, significantly reducing the weight. A solution to fix this is to use a spanset that can wrap the 4 rails properly. The hoist motor positioning is not something I'm familiar with on this type of setup, so I won't comment on exactly how that's supposed to be placed.
Re: Why friends don't let friends rig..... drunk
The concepts behind rigging are fairly simply but what is considered "correct" for a given lift can vary, that's why you don't see "done right" examples in general forums like these. Don't feel badly if you don't see what's wrong, that means you should have real engineering behind any structural lifting and suspension and engage qualified persons to do the work.
To learn more, start with this book: An Introduction to Rigging in the Entertainment Industry (Applications & Techniques): Chris Higgs: Amazon.com: Kindle Store
Follow up with: Rigging for Entertainment: Regulations and Practice: Chris Higgs: Amazon.com: Kindle Store
Or this: Entertainment Rigging: A Practical Guide for Riggers and Managers: Harry Donovan: 9780972338110: Amazon.com: Books
Shane points out the techniques and principles that are incorrect in the application pictured. FWIW, the upstage towers are rigged acceptably as the hoist chain goes over the head block and is (presumed) anchored at the offstage side of the tower base. The rest? Oy vey.
Looking at the pictures, though, it seems that with 2 more hoists and some beam clamps, they could have done away with the ground support towers.
The concepts behind rigging are fairly simply but what is considered "correct" for a given lift can vary, that's why you don't see "done right" examples in general forums like these. Don't feel badly if you don't see what's wrong, that means you should have real engineering behind any structural lifting and suspension and engage qualified persons to do the work.
To learn more, start with this book: An Introduction to Rigging in the Entertainment Industry (Applications & Techniques): Chris Higgs: Amazon.com: Kindle Store
Follow up with: Rigging for Entertainment: Regulations and Practice: Chris Higgs: Amazon.com: Kindle Store
Or this: Entertainment Rigging: A Practical Guide for Riggers and Managers: Harry Donovan: 9780972338110: Amazon.com: Books
Shane points out the techniques and principles that are incorrect in the application pictured. FWIW, the upstage towers are rigged acceptably as the hoist chain goes over the head block and is (presumed) anchored at the offstage side of the tower base. The rest? Oy vey.
Looking at the pictures, though, it seems that with 2 more hoists and some beam clamps, they could have done away with the ground support towers.
Re: Why friends don't let friends rig..... drunk
They had enough motors to just hang a front and rear truss and leave a truckload of truss at the shop.
Of course, you can't bill for truss you left at the shop, so...
They had enough motors to just hang a front and rear truss and leave a truckload of truss at the shop.
Of course, you can't bill for truss you left at the shop, so...
Re: Why friends don't let friends rig..... drunk
But you see, the purpose of these threads isn't to teach correct rigging. It's to mock those who haven't executed their rigging properly. It very nearly fits as "schadenfreude".
And I'm ok with that. I want to be perfectly clear on this one point. I'm not complaining about this phenomenon. In fact, I enjoy mocking others, so long as they knew the proper way to do something, and instead chose the shortcut that took them to this point.
It just feels a bit like an inside joke.
I wouldn't work under this. I wouldn't even work in the same room as this. I wouldn't want to be in the same building as this when that overloaded truss snaps in the middle and dumps intelligent lighting fixtures on whoever is unlucky enough to be standing below.
But you see, the purpose of these threads isn't to teach correct rigging. It's to mock those who haven't executed their rigging properly. It very nearly fits as "schadenfreude".
And I'm ok with that. I want to be perfectly clear on this one point. I'm not complaining about this phenomenon. In fact, I enjoy mocking others, so long as they knew the proper way to do something, and instead chose the shortcut that took them to this point.
It just feels a bit like an inside joke.
Shane Presley said:
I wouldn't work under this. I wouldn't even work in the same room as this. I wouldn't want to be in the same building as this when that overloaded truss snaps in the middle and dumps intelligent lighting fixtures on whoever is unlucky enough to be standing below.
Re: Why friends don't let friends rig..... drunk
I suspect (like it is here in alot of buildings Milt), that there is a contracted "in house" rigging company, and you can instantly add 5K or more on the bill to attach to the house grid. PSAV or some other company are called in to attach to the building , ANND you have to use their rigging... Alot of companies around here are coming in with ground support for that very reason...
I suspect (like it is here in alot of buildings Milt), that there is a contracted "in house" rigging company, and you can instantly add 5K or more on the bill to attach to the house grid. PSAV or some other company are called in to attach to the building , ANND you have to use their rigging... Alot of companies around here are coming in with ground support for that very reason...
Re: Why friends don't let friends rig..... drunk
Common sense prevails!
The setup is butt-ugly, too. I'm having a hard time imagining a client that would accept the yellow ratchet strap and visible orange cords.
Common sense prevails!
The setup is butt-ugly, too. I'm having a hard time imagining a client that would accept the yellow ratchet strap and visible orange cords.
Re: Why friends don't let friends rig..... drunk
Anywhere between 40%-60% of that fee is commission to the venue management.
Anywhere between 40%-60% of that fee is commission to the venue management.
Re: Why friends don't let friends rig..... drunk
For whatever it might be worth, I felt that way before I commented.
Many people have surprisingly low standards for things that fall outside their area of knowledge.
Common sense prevails!
For whatever it might be worth, I felt that way before I commented.
Many people have surprisingly low standards for things that fall outside their area of knowledge.
Re: Why friends don't let friends rig..... drunk
Still cheaper than lawyers and hospital bills.
Still cheaper than lawyers and hospital bills.
Re: Why friends don't let friends rig..... drunk
Tim, could you just give us the entire library in a post already?
Tim, could you just give us the entire library in a post already?
Re: Why friends don't let friends rig..... drunk
While that argument is logically valid, and one that comes up a lot whenever safety is concerned, in the real world there is still a bottom line and if any profit is going to be eaten by safety costs, one might as well stay safe by not doing it in the first place.
Obviously, doing things safely is paramount, but most of the time one has to do it within the confines of a budget.
With new rules and legislations being introduced both in the US and in Europe that are likely to involve more consultants and inspectors signing things off for a hefty fee while the operator still is liable if things go wrong, I don't think the situation is going to get any better, just more expensive.
Audiences, clients and performers are expecting million dollar productions at bargain basement price, maybe sometimes they should be told that they can't have it. And maybe sometimes the people making all this possible (the boys in black) should sometimes take a step back and go for safe and simple instead of trying to be at the cutting edge.
Do we really have to fly everything all the time?
While that argument is logically valid, and one that comes up a lot whenever safety is concerned, in the real world there is still a bottom line and if any profit is going to be eaten by safety costs, one might as well stay safe by not doing it in the first place.
Obviously, doing things safely is paramount, but most of the time one has to do it within the confines of a budget.
With new rules and legislations being introduced both in the US and in Europe that are likely to involve more consultants and inspectors signing things off for a hefty fee while the operator still is liable if things go wrong, I don't think the situation is going to get any better, just more expensive.
Audiences, clients and performers are expecting million dollar productions at bargain basement price, maybe sometimes they should be told that they can't have it. And maybe sometimes the people making all this possible (the boys in black) should sometimes take a step back and go for safe and simple instead of trying to be at the cutting edge.
Do we really have to fly everything all the time?