EDM Shows

[Ben Lagman]

When doing EDM shows, I've always been curious as of to how simple they are (unless I'm mistaken). Since the DJ is using his backline mixing his tracks, as well as having the tracks going to his own mixer, does his mixer's output go directly to the board at FOH through a compressor, to the mains? Because if I'm not mistaken, that'd be only 2 channels, plus the DJ's microphone along with maybe a very select few other channels for anything else. Comparing it to when a band plays a venue utilizing countless channels with different effects going through each, etc., are EDM shows much easier? Many of the EDM shows I've attended seem to only utilize about 2-4 channels in total as well when I look over at the board at FOH while they're going on...

 

[Chris Nixon]

Re: EDM Shows

Many of the EDM shows I've attended seem to only utilize about 2-4 channels in total as well when I look over at the board at FOH while they're going on...

There will be outputs from the monitor section of the DJ mixer coming into the console and being sent back out to him for his wedges / sidefills etc so he can change the volume of it but levels can be monitored. There may also be 2 sets of DJ gear and associated channels for seamless changeovers.

Chris

 

[andrew gissing]

Re: EDM Shows

At some of the larger shows the majority of the effort is hanging the line array, stacking and plugging up the subs, connecting amps and constructing the sidefills. That we don't have a number of inputs on stage for a band is a minor time-saver compared to the rest of it.

Compared to a festival with lots of band changeovers then yes, during the show it runs a lot easier even with 2 or 3 DJ rigs swapping in and out. Compared to a one band show, not much different. Like the easiness balances out the boredom compared with working with live musicians.

andrew

 

[Scott Bolt]

Re: EDM Shows

When doing EDM shows, I've always been curious as of to how simple they are (unless I'm mistaken). Since the DJ is using his backline mixing his tracks, as well as having the tracks going to his own mixer, does his mixer's output go directly to the board at FOH through a compressor, to the mains? Because if I'm not mistaken, that'd be only 2 channels, plus the DJ's microphone along with maybe a very select few other channels for anything else. Comparing it to when a band plays a venue utilizing countless channels with different effects going through each, etc., are EDM shows much easier? Many of the EDM shows I've attended seem to only utilize about 2-4 channels in total as well when I look over at the board at FOH while they're going on...

Lots of 2x18 subs, 1 10" top, and a 4 channel mixer

Seriously though, I think that an EDM setup is much easier to setup and run than a live band for a great number of reasons.

 

[RYAN LOUDMUSIC JENKINS]

Re: EDM Shows

I am set up with 10 input channels and 3 stereo outs.

That is two wireless mics, two stereo inputs from each DJ mixer, one is main outs one is booth. I am set up for two DJ mixers because often the headliner won't share.

Outputs are stereo mains, stereo front fills, stereo Texas headphones. I have my show file with aux fed subs available if required but usually don't use them.

One the show starts I am baby sitting the console and DSP and make adjustments as needed. It's no different than any other show. They change between DJs without any gaps in the music. I don't have to do anything but adjust gains between the different DJs when they change.

 

[Robert Lofgren]

Re: EDM Shows

I got the rider for some dj/rapper act some weeks ago and for some reason they list a 24ch board as a minimum.

In the next paragraph they state that they use two channels for dj and one channel for rapper so it must be a very complicated setup ;-)

I'm curious though. Would most of you put a di in between or go directly to the board when they use i.e. a Djm850 or similar dj-mixer?

 

[Ivan Beaver]

Re: EDM Shows

I'm curious though. Would most of you put a di in between or go directly to the board when they use i.e. a Djm850 or similar dj-mixer?

A DI is always a good idea-for the sake of physical isolation-between your gear and somebody elses.

 

[Dave Barnett]

Re: EDM Shows

A DI is always a good idea-for the sake of physical isolation-between your gear and somebody elses.

On DJ and EDM shows I used to call the DI an "audio condom".

 

[Nick Boulton]

Re: EDM Shows

I've just come off of a fairly large dance festival in Manchester (UK) where I was system and FoH tech. We had two Dj setups that would flip flop, each of which had stereo monitoring all run to the monitor board (Avid SC48, overkill but our sole live band specced it!). We also ran 4 channels of RF mic, routed to FoH and monitor boards rather than via the Dj mixers.

The vast majority of work involved was in system setup and limiting to ensure that the DJs would have some dynamics, but we could keep them inside the quite strict noise requirements. To this end, we put in 12 l'acoustics v-dosc and 12 sb28 subs (as a centre block in cardioid mode) for stage 3, and 14 vdosc and 16 subs (also cardioid but in a more traditional left-right configuration) on stage 2.

DJs were run through Xta 548s because of the brickwall limiting and dynamic eq available in each unit (dynamic eq allowed us to work around the A weighted limits with minimum disruption to the DJs sound)

 

[andrew gissing]

Re: EDM Shows

Another technique often used is to feed some of the FOH sound back into the DJ's monitors. That way, when the DJ turns his booth output off, there is still some noise coming through therefore... "the FOH system must be working really well". No noise = "I can't hear the PA because it's facing away from me, therefore it's not loud enough = complain".

andrew

 

[Rob Timmerman]

Re: EDM Shows

I got the rider for some dj/rapper act some weeks ago and for some reason they list a 24ch board as a minimum.

In the next paragraph they state that they use two channels for dj and one channel for rapper so it must be a very complicated setup ;-)

I'm curious though. Would most of you put a di in between or go directly to the board when they use i.e. a Djm850 or similar dj-mixer?

A 24 channel console is the smallest traditional "big boy" console, and is likely specified to ensure a minimum quality/feature set level, not because the act needs 24 channels. Basically, it means "we want an A-list console, not a Mackie 1202"

 

[Eric Cagle]

Re: EDM Shows

Bring much more PA than you think you need, especially sub. Honestly I have never had a DJ come close to maxing out any system I have supplied. Don't tell anybody but I used to be a DJ as a side job many years ago and I sort of know what to expect. I always tell them to have fun but lets try not to hurt anybody because I brought enough rig to easily do it. It is when you are underpowered that bad stuff happens with EDM. It is amazing how responsible all of the many DJ's I have worked with have been when it comes to volume, even the really young ones. Yes the shows are loud but if your rig is tuned well for the room and is clear an amazing thing happens........they don't feel the need to push it so hard.

The thing to be aware of with a lot of the current dubstep tracks is how low some of the fundamental tones are. There is often actually major content below 30hz. This is where the subwoofer headroom comes into play. You don't really hear it but everybody in the room will sure feel it. If the system is dropping off like a rock below 50hz then some DJ's will try to push the bass to get that "feel" happening. What they end up with is a distorted muddy mess. When you have a rig capable of pushing enough air flat down into the 30hz range that amazing thing of being conservative with the volume happens again. Loud and clear will always trump sheer volume, especially with DJ's.

Because my larger rig is pretty old school I have to use lots of extra cabinets on the bottom and tune it to be flat lower at the expense of total bottom end headroom to match the output of the tops. That is how I handle it with what I have to work with.

The only console riders I have seen to date had to do with a specific DJ type mixer but most everyone is carrying their own stuff and are only requesting the number and type of inputs. Yes these gigs really are simple compared to shows involving bands if you have enough headroom to work with. I will add that I have seen a few DJ's lately touring with a live drummer and often a keyboardist and other musicians.

 

[Lisa Lane-Collins]

Re: EDM Shows

Part of the challenge of 'mixing' a DJ set is using graphics etc to tame the speakers so they don't sound so harsh loud (maybe redundant on high end gear but certainly makes a difference on club stuff). Discuss.

 

[Eric Cagle]

Re: EDM Shows

Part of the challenge of 'mixing' a DJ set is using graphics etc to tame the speakers so they don't sound so harsh loud (maybe redundant on high end gear but certainly makes a difference on club stuff). Discuss.

If the rig is set up and tuned for the room the only issues would be coming from the DJ if he is trying to boost the high end or something unless it is a poorly recorded track. Most commercially recorded tracks will sound reasonably similar as far as spectral balance. The big issue I run into occasionally is most of the really talented DJ's are recording from scratch or at least adding to all the tracks. In that case if there are some problems they will usually be consistent for the whole set and as you said can be tamed with the house EQ. Many of the inexperienced guys will put the "smiley" curve on their board EQ if they have one so you have to deal with that if it is a problem.

Really the main problem that most people run into with EDM in clubs is just not having enough rig for the gig. Unfortunately most club owners put in just the bare minimum of sound equipment they think they can get by with. Electronic Dance Music will easily push and often exceed the limits of a less than adequate system for the entire set. With the low end it is not just how much is there, it is how far down it is. As I mentioned there are fundamental tones often below 30hz and I will add to that "lots and lots of stuff in the 30hz-40hz range."

 

[Eric Cagle]

Re: EDM Shows

Part of the challenge of 'mixing' a DJ set is using graphics etc to tame the speakers so they don't sound so harsh loud (maybe redundant on high end gear but certainly makes a difference on club stuff). Discuss.

I will add that much of the harshness can come from low bit rate MP3 recording and poor digital to analog conversion from the source of the DJ's music.

 

[RYAN LOUDMUSIC JENKINS]

Re: EDM Shows

I will add that much of the harshness can come from low bit rate MP3 recording and poor digital to analog conversion from the source of the DJ's music.

Get over the fixation on bad sounding mp3s. EDM DJs use the best audio files available. The DJs I provide for are making tens of thousands of dollars for a two hour set. Their fans expect the best sound quality. Even the unknown local openers use great audio files. Almost always these days, if it sounds bad then it is the provider's fault for having a poor sounding rig with lack of headroom! Don't bring the $200 12 channel mixer, it won't sound good. Don't compress the tracks, it won't sound good. Don't bring in anything that is low end, it just won't sound good. If the DJs insist on $10,000 worth of back line don't you think the providers should step up and provide something better then a 1992 Mackie 1202?

 

[drew gandy]

Re: EDM Shows

So you don't encounter "level creep" over the course of the set? I would expect something to happen at least from ear fatigue on the part of the DJ if not from the experiential need for "more". Anyone gradually boost the monitor levels so that the DJ doesn't feel the need to boost at his end?

 

[RYAN LOUDMUSIC JENKINS]

Re: EDM Shows

So you don't encounter "level creep" over the course of the set? I would expect something to happen at least from ear fatigue on the part of the DJ if not from the experiential need for "more". Anyone gradually boost the monitor levels so that the DJ doesn't feel the need to boost at his end?

Your monitors volume should be controlled by the Booth Output on the DJ mixer. You should have control over it just in case they get out of hand, other than that, how do you know when they want to hear the monitors or not. I have some that barely use them, others are WFO, it's not a set it and forget it application.

 

[drew gandy]

Re: EDM Shows

Your monitors volume should be controlled by the Booth Output on the DJ mixer. You should have control over it just in case they get out of hand, other than that, how do you know when they want to hear the monitors or not. I have some that barely use them, others are WFO, it's not a set it and forget it application.

I'm thinking about the psychology that happens with musicians. As the night goes on they often bump up their level. I'm sure that some of the DJ's do various tricks with the booth monitors [on and off for various things etc]. But if you have their booth feed as a separate input to your console, you could give them some slight nudges as the set burns and maybe, if they are using the monitors, that would keep them from pushing the levels up on their main output. It's just a technique that I guess I would expect you guys to use. The idea of keeping a little of the house in their monitors is a clever idea. I have never done an EDM event (that I can remember and it's been awhile since I've done any generic DJ stuff as well. Maybe keeping them from pushing the mains is actually counter productive? If the DJ feels a level bump is right then maybe the audience does too? My concern is mostly for keeping the system and the audience's ears safe particularly when there is a series of sets. It's like TV commercials; no one wants their set to sound softer than the last. So, if each set bumps the level 3-6db then at the end of the day...

 

[Eric Cagle]

Re: EDM Shows

Get over the fixation on bad sounding mp3s. EDM DJs use the best audio files available. The DJs I provide for are making tens of thousands of dollars for a two hour set. Their fans expect the best sound quality. Even the unknown local openers use great audio files. Almost always these days, if it sounds bad then it is the provider's fault for having a poor sounding rig with lack of headroom! Don't bring the $200 12 channel mixer, it won't sound good. Don't compress the tracks, it won't sound good. Don't bring in anything that is low end, it just won't sound good. If the DJs insist on $10,000 worth of back line don't you think the providers should step up and provide something better then a 1992 Mackie 1202?

I was addressing Lisa's comment about stuff encountered at the small club level. I am with you all the way about EDM at a national level. These DJ's are our current rock stars and are as serious about their sound as we are about our rigs. Why do you think I stress the need for low end accuracy and headroom.