Insert Jack question.

A

Alan Sledzieski

Senior
Sep 11, 2011
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Hamburg, NY.
I bought a gb8 and it has no insert on the aux sends. My question is, what jack do I need for a insert, open, closed, double, ???? little confused. I see what I need in my head and on paper, just not sure what the proper part is. A link would be great.

Thanks.
 
Re: Insert Jack question.

Alan Sledzieski said:
I bought a gb8 and it has no insert on the aux sends. My question is, what jack do I need for a insert, open, closed, double, ???? little confused. I see what I need in my head and on paper, just not sure what the proper part is. A link would be great.

Thanks.
Click to expand...

Assuming you are inserting something in front of whatever you are aux sending to, just plug into the input of that device and go from the output of the device to the next device in the chain, with whatever cables you would use for those devices, think serial. Or am I misunderstanding your question?
 
Re: Insert Jack question.

Per Søvik said:
Assuming you are inserting something in front of whatever you are aux sending to, just plug into the input of that device and go from the output of the device to the next device in the chain, with whatever cables you would use for those devices, think serial. Or am I misunderstanding your question?
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I like to put a compressor, set as limit on the monitor sends, I could do what you say which is fine, but this mixer will be used with different sets of gear, so a simple insert jack will be best.
 
Re: Insert Jack question.

Alan Sledzieski said:
I like to put a compressor, set as limit on the monitor sends, I could do what you say which is fine, but this mixer will be used with different sets of gear, so a simple insert jack will be best.
Click to expand...

You're planning on doing a PC-board level modification to the mixer? Installing insert jacks will require that you find panel space for them, then cut PC board traces and solder wires to them. Figure $75 - $100 per mix, presuming it can be done at all.

This is an example of "the wrong piece of gear at the right price is still the wrong piece of gear."
 
Re: Insert Jack question.

Tim McCulloch said:
You're planning on doing a PC-board level modification to the mixer? Installing insert jacks will require that you find panel space for them, then cut PC board traces and solder wires to them. Figure $75 - $100 per mix, presuming it can be done at all.

This is an example of "the wrong piece of gear at the right price is still the wrong piece of gear."
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No I'm not doing that, its very simple, Mixer has 1/4 auxs, I'm making a little outboard panel that will plug into the existing 1/4 aux outs, I'm going to use xlr 's and 1/4 insert jacks.
 
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Re: Insert Jack question.

Alan Sledzieski said:
No I'm not doing that, its very simple, Mixer has 1/4 auxs, I'm making a little outboard panel that will plug into the existing 1/4 aux outs, I'm going to use xlr 's and 1/4 insert jacks.

So back to the original question, Thanks.
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If you plan on keeping the output balanced, you will need to use a pair of balanced connectors, plus a DPDT switch to enable or disable the insert. Balanced inserts (often on 1/4" TRS connectors) are found on most A-list analog consoles. In your situation, this doubles the number of connectors (failure points) in the system for only a minor convenience.

If you want to go unbalanced (possibly to add a balancing transformer after the insert?) you will need a 1/4" TRS jack plus a switch (the switch can be either internal to the jack or external). This again adds points of failure, and either degrades your signal path by going unbalanced, or adds significant cost for good balancing transformers.

Me? I'd build looms for the gear I was adding inline. Same or less setup time, more flexible, and much more "industry standard".
 
Re: Insert Jack question.

I think the 1/4 inch TRS aux outs on a GB8 are fully balanced. If you go with your plan of building a outboard aux insert box using a 1/4 inch normaling jack for insert you will need to go unbalanced at that point and losing the balanced line from that point on. Boards with 1/4 inch insert points on outputs apply the insert prior to the line driver amp and on input inserts it's after the summing input amp.

The GB8 with do aux / group flip per each of the eight sub groups. Depending on how many audio sub groups you need and how many aux sends you want to insert on you could just flip some of the sub groups to the aux mode. That way you can use the insert on that sub group and your aux out is on the XLR. When you solo an aux while using the aux flip mode with something inserted on that aux your cue monitor will let you hear whats happening to the mix on stage. Normally when using aux flip you'll insert an EQ.

Unless I'm missing something I don't see a problem with just hooking up the compressor inline with the output.
 
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Re: Insert Jack question.

Alan... if I'm reading this correctly you are trying to rewire the 1/4" outputs to become insert jacks in addition to using it as an output. You're defying the laws of physics, man. Just plug it inline after the output.

Not to mention, why the f*** are you using limiters for on your monitor sends?!
 
Re: Insert Jack question.

True insert jacks on an AUX send would be before the AUX output fader. Adding an insert is more than soldering, the send needs to be buffered, and return differential.

Unless I am missing something you just want to patch a piece of rack gear in series with your output. Perhaps a pair of TRS jacks with switch contacts on tip and ring of the second (return) jack that normal through from the first (send) jack. The typical mixer insert jack uses the tip and ring switch to break an internal unbalanced path with a single jack. To keep it balanced requires two jacks...

You can wire it up so patching into the standard send jack does not break the path, but patching into the return jack does, or you could use two switching jacks so patching into either breaks the path.

JR

PS Limiting on monitor send? The customer is always right... :)
 
Re: Insert Jack question.

Alan Sledzieski said:
I like to put a compressor, set as limit on the monitor sends, I could do what you say which is fine, but this mixer will be used with different sets of gear, so a simple insert jack will be best.
Click to expand...

If you want to "limit" the output before the monitors, you don't want it inserted pre-fader. True limiting happens as the last thing in the chain before final amplification of the signal. By having a limiter pre-fader, you can defeat the limiter by simply upping the fader level. The limiter should be post output only.
 
Re: Insert Jack question.

Max Warasila said:
Alan... if I'm reading this correctly you are trying to rewire the 1/4" outputs to become insert jacks in addition to using it as an output. You're defying the laws of physics, man. Just plug it inline after the output.

Not to mention, why the f*** are you using limiters for on your monitor sends?!
Click to expand...


Your reading it wrong
 
Re: Insert Jack question.

Well after being taught whats going on and where the insert is located I guess I will have to rethink what I want to do. When I get a chance I can draw it on paper so you can see what I was after. I wanted the insert jacks because of different gear that will be used in different racks along with a friend of mine that will use this backup mixer.

Also I never planned on going inside the mixer and resoldering anything, Mike C figured out what I was after.

Someone asked me why the F??? would I put a limiter on a monitor, kick drums, snare, bass and drunk idiots that stick the mic in the 12 or 15 tend to use up amp power quick, so I have some extra bss dpr 404 sitting around so why not put them on the monitors? As limit, no compression.
 
Re: Insert Jack question.

Greg Cameron said:
If you want to "limit" the output before the monitors, you don't want it inserted pre-fader. True limiting happens as the last thing in the chain before final amplification of the signal. By having a limiter pre-fader, you can defeat the limiter by simply upping the fader level. The limiter should be post output only.
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Greg,
All I know is on my pro desk 8, I set the main aux send at 0, adjust the individual aux sends on the channels, I have a dpr 404 on the aux out insert, and when someone wants more kick and I turn up the channel aux send, the dpr is seeing it.
 
Re: Insert Jack question.

Tim McCulloch said:
This is an example of "the wrong piece of gear at the right price is still the wrong piece of gear."
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Actually this statement is wrong, the gb8 is a backup / when conditions are bad I will use it, versus taking my apb out on a beach or crappy venue where its not so safe as far as beer and drunk people trying to spill and smash into me, or blowing sand, threat of thunder storms on lake erie. So its the right piece of gear at the right price, I just want inserts.
 
Re: Insert Jack question.

Instead of just saying "no" to all ideas, I think it's time that we start creating solutions. Let's channel our inner engineers, not our inner technicians.

Alan, check your PMs.
 
Re: Insert Jack question.

Max Warasila said:
Instead of just saying "no" to all ideas, I think it's time that we start creating solutions. Let's channel our inner engineers, not our inner technicians.

Alan, check your PMs.
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Yes, let's be engineers and take a very simple procedure and replace it with a complicated and expensive technical solution ;)~;-)~:wink:
 
Re: Insert Jack question.

I did see my pm Max, I'll study it more later.

Per S. If you think this is a difficult procedure,, I'll leave it alone,,,,,,, Expensive, maybe $ 10 per Aux.

Mike, Why wont it work?, its a insert cable, it works on individual channel inserts, I'm just inserting the compressor at the end, where it should be, like I've known all along.

I know everyone is saying just go out of the aux into a compressor, again I'll say, different racks of gear will be used by different people and its not possible to do that right now.
 
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