Insert Jack question.

Re: Insert Jack question.

It is not a difficult procedure, and it isn't hard to make an insert box either, but it won't be a ring send to tip return if you want to maintain a balanced signal, it needs to be one send and one return trs. If you want to use the unbalanced insert convention, then you can do that by shorting the ring to ground out of the mixer and do a unbalanced insert box.
 
Re: Insert Jack question.

Alan Sledzieski said:
.

Mike, Why wont it work?, its a insert cable, it works on individual channel inserts, I'm just inserting the compressor at the end, where it should be, like I've known all along.
Click to expand...
looking at the pic...
first thing
as per's post suggests you need to get your head around
the difference between balanced and unbalanced

the unasked question here is
what is the male end of you insert cabling
[single TRS per channel or duel TS or TRS...]
 
Re: Insert Jack question.

Alan Sledzieski said:
I did see my pm Max, I'll study it more later.

Per S. If you think this is a difficult procedure,, I'll leave it alone,,,,,,, Expensive, maybe $ 10 per Aux.

Mike, Why wont it work?, its a insert cable, it works on individual channel inserts, I'm just inserting the compressor at the end, where it should be, like I've known all along.

I know everyone is saying just go out of the aux into a compressor, again I'll say, different racks of gear will be used by different people and its not possible to do that right now.
Click to expand...

The long answer should have been "NO, that would not work as an insert jack if you want to maintain a balanced output" something I would want to do.
Your schematic will unbalance the line.
How many monitors mixes are you going to use. I would still look at the sub group aux flip mode if you can spare the sub groups.
 
Re: Insert Jack question.

I don't like to repeat my self so I'll just cut and paste from my earlier post.

-------paste------
Perhaps a pair of TRS jacks with switch contacts on tip and ring of the second (return) jack that normal through from the first (send) jack. The typical mixer insert jack uses the tip and ring switch to break an internal unbalanced path with a single jack. To keep it balanced requires two jacks...

You can wire it up so patching into the standard send jack does not break the path, but patching into the return jack does, or you could use two switching jacks so patching into either breaks the path.
------end paste-----

Using a pair of TRS jacks one for send and other for return maintain signal balance.

The send is just a parallel output also sent to the switch contacts on the return jack to pass signal when nothing is jacked into the return. The return jack uses the switch contacts to break the normal signal coming from the send jack and accept the patched signal.

JR
 
Re: Insert Jack question.

I understand balanced and not balanced. I know what I am doing is unbalanced. But all other inserts are not balanced, correct? They are just trs on the desk side. Most insert cable on the patched in equipment at ts. So that's not balanced either.
 
Re: Insert Jack question.

Alan Sledzieski said:
I understand balanced and not balanced. I know what I am doing is unbalanced. But all other inserts are not balanced, correct? They are just trs on the desk side. Most insert cable on the patched in equipment at ts. So that's not balanced either.
Click to expand...

Lower end desk inserts are not balanced, it's true. But the output circuit past the insert on any modern desk will be either impedance or active balanced. The method of making an insert point you're proposing will not provide a balanced line at the output. It may or may not be a problem depending on your gear and the environment you're working in. The proper way to do the insert jack is to insert it before any balanced line driver circuit. And in your case, you want it pre-fader. So that means cutting into the PCB. If I were in your shoes, I'd probably opt to sell the mixer and get one that does what I want it to. In lieu of that, I would put the compressor/limiter on the aux output and be done with it.
 
Re: Insert Jack question.

Alan Sledzieski said:
I understand balanced and not balanced. I know what I am doing is unbalanced. But all other inserts are not balanced, correct? They are just trs on the desk side. Most insert cable on the patched in equipment at ts. So that's not balanced either.
Click to expand...

As I understand your drawing, you are sending the tip straight thru' and using the insert on the ring. That means that you are inserting on one half of the balanced signal, letting yourself in for all sorts of weird processing. An unbalanced insert box should have a ts going into the mixer, the tip of this being fed to the ring of the insert jack. the switch of the insert jack should short between the tip and ring when nothing is inserted, and the tip of the insert jack should feed to the tip of the output jack. This is fairly simple and will work with most mixers. If you use a panel jack on the input, then that should be a stereo jack with the ring shortened to ground, so it wont matter if you use a trs cable between mixer and box. The same on the output, then you can drive all balanced and unbalanced gear (as long as there is no phantom)
Some equipment don't like to have the negative of a balanced output shortened to ground, and will distort a few dB below stated maximum output.
 
Re: Insert Jack question.

How many aux sends are you going to use for monitors and how many sub groups do you need for you mix. If the eight sub groups allow you to do both problem solved. Put the appropriate sub groups in the aux flip mode and your all set for inserts on the aux sends. If you have to give up a sub group or two to flip them to a aux it sounds like inserting a limiter would take priority in your case.
 
Re: Insert Jack question.

Mike Caldwell said:
How many aux sends are you going to use for monitors and how many sub groups do you need for you mix. If the eight sub groups allow you to do both problem solved. Put the appropriate sub groups in the aux flip mode and your all set for inserts on the aux sends. If you have to give up a sub group or two to flip them to a aux it sounds like inserting a limiter would take priority in your case.
Click to expand...

6 aux's for monitors, all subgroups are in use.
 
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