01V96 and aux fed subs question

D

Donnie Evans

Sophomore
Jan 12, 2011
203
1
18
Louisville, GA
www.ogeecheeriverband.com
Just wanted to lay my plans out and ask if this sounds right or if I'm missing something. I've never had enough aux's or patching capabilities to run aux fed subs but always wanted to try. I run mono an could have tried the L/R split for the mains/subs just didn't want to fool with that.



So now i have an 01v96, getting an ADA8000, and my crossover is a dbx 223 (2 channels). I have four monitor mixes and planned on using 3 fx (2 verbs and a delay) which will leave me with an unused aux and i wanted to try feeding the subs with it. So my plans are to hard pan all my channels/groups left and use the left output as my ''main'' mono out. The 4 omni outs will be for monitor mixes. So i had planned on patching the aux for my subs to an output on my ada8000. The main output will go to one channel of my x-over... aux-sub output to the other channel. Set xover frequency the same on both channels... high out of channel one to feed main amps....low out of ch2 to feed sub amps. Does this sound right?
 
Re: 01V96 and aux fed subs question

Yep - sounds right. You won't have to hard pan things left if you leave them centered - just don't pan them right of center.



Make sure your sub aux is post fader.



The other way you can go is to use group fed subs. This saves you your 8th aux for a 5th monitor mix or whatever, still gives you the benefits of aux fed subs but removes the hassle of having to set sub gain for each channel - you set the subs group output level once to match the mains and then every channel you assign to the subs group will be ready to rock.
 
Re: 01V96 and aux fed subs question

But won't using a group kind of defeat the purpose of variability control with an aux? I wont have control of how much of each channel I send to the subs, right? Its more like an on/off switch for each channel going to subs then. Or am I missing something?
 
Re: 01V96 and aux fed subs question

The channel EQ still works for tone shaping.



This will launch the ancient aux vs. group debate, but in my opinion, I see independent control of the amount of subs per input as via an aux as a detriment, not an advantage. This turns the subwoofers into an ''effect'', rather than part of the system. I don't like having to set levels for everything twice. Others disagree.



The primary benefit of aux fed subs is that the slope of the low cut filter on any channel isn't steep enough to prevent some signal from - say a vocal mic - to bleed into the subs. This causes muddiness. With Aux or group fed subs, you have a ''brick wall'' low cut filter, and absolutely nothing from undesirable channels hits the subs. This advantage is the same no matter whether you are using fixed gain sends (groups) or variable (auxes).
 
Re: 01V96 and aux fed subs question

Well the main reason for me is keyboards... I dont want to constantly re-shape eq all night for all the different keyboard patches (they change frequently with us)... but some I'd like to add a little more sub too... some dont need much at all. Etc.
 
Re: 01V96 and aux fed subs question

That seems like a pretty specific problem - I would think that if this is a big issue for you, the problem would be wider-band than just subs, but the great thing about digital gear is you can try a lot of things and see what works for you.



It sounds like you need to talk with your keyboard player and work with him/her to level things a bit. I'm a gigging keyboard player - it can be done.
 
Re: 01V96 and aux fed subs question

I've thought of that... but I have no idea about keyboards... he has a Roloand RD600 (I think...maybe 500)... its mainly for the piano... great piano sound.. and a Korg Triton LE... can he edit eq and levels on all of his patches and save the changes? so that i dont have to constantly be working with the keys on the mixer? I do that all night long....



Edit: and mainly the prolem is in the lower end... the highs kill when he's on horns so i have to put some low end in them... and then when he goes to something different, an organ, for example its alot of low end rumble and i have to take it all back out and then some..
 
Re: 01V96 and aux fed subs question

Donnie Evans wrote on Fri said:
I've thought of that... but I have no idea about keyboards... he has a Roloand RD600 (I think...maybe 500)... its mainly for the piano... great piano sound.. and a Korg Triton LE... can he edit eq and levels on all of his patches and save the changes? so that i dont have to constantly be working with the keys on the mixer? I do that all night long....



Edit: and mainly the prolem is in the lower end... the highs kill when he's on horns so i have to put some low end in them... and then when he goes to something different, an organ, for example its alot of low end rumble and i have to take it all back out and then some..
Click to expand...



Yes, he can edit and re-save his patches. In fact, he should edit them and save them to a show file, so that his original sounds remain intact for other uses.



In production rehearsals it is not uncommon to spend lots of time deciding editing keyboard sounds for both scale and overall level. I suggest you take a pre-fader direct out of keyboard channel(s) and record them for your player. You can play it back and go over the things that need changed.



Have fun, good luck.



Tim Mc
 
Re: 01V96 and aux fed subs question

Donnie Evans wrote on Fri said:
Just wanted to lay my plans out and ask if this sounds right or if I'm missing something. I've never had enough aux's or patching capabilities to run aux fed subs but always wanted to try. I run mono an could have tried the L/R split for the mains/subs just didn't want to fool with that.



So now i have an 01v96, getting an ADA8000, and my crossover is a dbx 223 (2 channels). I have four monitor mixes and planned on using 3 fx (2 verbs and a delay) which will leave me with an unused aux and i wanted to try feeding the subs with it. So my plans are to hard pan all my channels/groups left and use the left output as my ''main'' mono out. The 4 omni outs will be for monitor mixes. So i had planned on patching the aux for my subs to an output on my ada8000. The main output will go to one channel of my x-over... aux-sub output to the other channel. Set xover frequency the same on both channels... high out of channel one to feed main amps....low out of ch2 to feed sub amps. Does this sound right?
Click to expand...



[[http://srforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/t/9554/51/?SQ=385d2bb3ee97e9ad13c5aeaf0c86a5a2]]



I did the above a long time ago now but there may be something there you can use. If you used the high cut parametric on your omni 4 out and the low cut on your stereo mains L/R outs you wouldn't need any crossover if your just running a biamped rig with a crossover point around 90/100hz. You can also take advantage of the delay in your desk to get the subs and midhigh in alignment if you want.



Also you can have 1 Aux send feed 2 or more effects processors.

You can have Aux 1 feeding Effects processor 1 and 2.



If you are using Aux 1 for just vocals for a given effect, say reverb ,you can assign Aux 1 send to Effects processor 2 as well and have delay setup for your vocals. This gives you full use of all the effects processors on the desk and still a free an Aux for Aux Fed Subs.



Not sure how long the above link will work but I wanted to pass it along. You could of course use your crossover just for the highs or Aux Subs if the filters are not quite right but these do work ok at the given crossover point.



Douglas R. Allen
 
Re: 01V96 and aux fed subs question

Donnie Evans wrote on Fri said:
.... and mainly the problem is in the lower end... the highs kill when he's on horns so i have to put some low end in them.....
Click to expand...



If the highs kill on horns, why are you not attenuating highs on those patches? You might find that the resultant EQ works with the rest of the patches, and thus save yourself a lot of work.

 
Re: 01V96 and aux fed subs question

Donnie Evans wrote on Mon said:
Guess I worded that wrong... I do cut highs some but it usually takes a little of both... cutting highs and addings some lows. And the high cuts I make when he's on horns need to be brought back up when he's on different patches.
Click to expand...



1. He needs to edit his patches.



2. See #1.



3. Multi-band compression will fix this if you can't get his attention with a 2x4.



I'm lucky enough to have gathered a few TCE Triple C units over the years and they are fabulous for addressing such problems. Smaller digital consoles such as the 01v and others still do not really free the user from carrying some outboard. Fancier, more professional consoles will give you plug-ins for this. But at our level I'm sure many are still carrying at least a small rack of outboard.



And the big boys are not totally immune. I keep seeing threads about toting Lake processors........
 
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