Does anyone on hear use or have any experience with 12 inch subs? I only ask because I'm thinking about downgrading my rig to better accommodate my needs. Oh and to save our backs and space. I always run subwoofers but just don't see the need to bring in full 18s or much less my dual 18s for small bars with less than 50 people n only 20 or so on the dance floor. My other concern is how will they fair with 15 inch mains.
12 inch subs
- Thread starter Matt Jones
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Re: 12 inch subs
One of the best small subs is the Danley TH Mini, it has a single 12 in a tapped horn design and provides a surprising amount of "subbage" for its size although it cuts off pretty much at 45-50 Hz. Another favorite is the JTR Growler which is a little bit bigger and also has a horn loaded single 12". The size of your 15" mains shouldn't be the concern, it is the output of the woofer below and the design of the box and components that will help it keep up.
One of the best small subs is the Danley TH Mini, it has a single 12 in a tapped horn design and provides a surprising amount of "subbage" for its size although it cuts off pretty much at 45-50 Hz. Another favorite is the JTR Growler which is a little bit bigger and also has a horn loaded single 12". The size of your 15" mains shouldn't be the concern, it is the output of the woofer below and the design of the box and components that will help it keep up.
Re: 12 inch subs
The Mini's are still pretty heavy at 76 lbs. OTOH center clustered and driven from a bridged NU3000 they get "outside gig" loud
. I mostly use my RevSound RS115X bass cabs as subs indoors - 25 lbs each. They go down below 40Hz and have efficient 400wrms drivers.
The Mini's are still pretty heavy at 76 lbs. OTOH center clustered and driven from a bridged NU3000 they get "outside gig" loud
. I mostly use my RevSound RS115X bass cabs as subs indoors - 25 lbs each. They go down below 40Hz and have efficient 400wrms drivers.Re: 12 inch subs
Thanks for the input guys. I was thinking something a little lighter in mind. Like the evzxa1 sub really caught my eye. I know it won't put out what the danleys can but the 45lbs is really appealing. Plus being powered I could leave my entire amp rack at home as well. Any thoughts how these would pair center clustered with a set of Jbl prx715's? I also run peavey qw tops and Jbl stx tops but if I'm needing to use those then most likely it will be a large enough venue to use their appropriate sub companions. Crowded bars with tight load ins and outs is why I'm looking to downsize. Anyone have any experience with the ev's?
Thanks for the input guys. I was thinking something a little lighter in mind. Like the evzxa1 sub really caught my eye. I know it won't put out what the danleys can but the 45lbs is really appealing. Plus being powered I could leave my entire amp rack at home as well. Any thoughts how these would pair center clustered with a set of Jbl prx715's? I also run peavey qw tops and Jbl stx tops but if I'm needing to use those then most likely it will be a large enough venue to use their appropriate sub companions. Crowded bars with tight load ins and outs is why I'm looking to downsize. Anyone have any experience with the ev's?
Re: 12 inch subs
As I'm sure you know that sub is meant to pair with their 8" 2 way tops. A 12" direct radiating sub under a PRX715 is quite the mismatch. A PRX718S-XLF or two per side would be the "proper" match (or whatever equivalent they sell now). Personally I use passive monitors so my 45 lb 6 channel amp rack can power subs too. So I'm not limited to powered options.
As I'm sure you know that sub is meant to pair with their 8" 2 way tops. A 12" direct radiating sub under a PRX715 is quite the mismatch. A PRX718S-XLF or two per side would be the "proper" match (or whatever equivalent they sell now). Personally I use passive monitors so my 45 lb 6 channel amp rack can power subs too. So I'm not limited to powered options.
Re: 12 inch subs
The small 12" direct radiating or bandpass subs I've seen have all been intended as a LF extension box for small top boxes (the EV model you are looking at appears to be intended to pair well with the ZXA1, which is an 8" 2-way box). I'd either consider forgoing the subs with your 15" tops, or downsizing the whole rig
The small 12" direct radiating or bandpass subs I've seen have all been intended as a LF extension box for small top boxes (the EV model you are looking at appears to be intended to pair well with the ZXA1, which is an 8" 2-way box). I'd either consider forgoing the subs with your 15" tops, or downsizing the whole rig
Re: 12 inch subs
Thanks for all the input fellas. I appreciate it. It looks like my best option is to just forgo the subs all together if the venues are that small. I just need a little kick thru them. My bass amp/combo can really bring the boom without even being ran thru the p.a. The only reason I'm set on the prx tops is because I already have four of them that I use as monitors when on bigger stages and running my passive f.o.h. systems. I plan to just go all powered for the smaller joints. 2 monitors and 2 mains. Should make set up and tear down a breeze. Each band member grabs one thing and let's roll.
Thanks for all the input fellas. I appreciate it. It looks like my best option is to just forgo the subs all together if the venues are that small. I just need a little kick thru them. My bass amp/combo can really bring the boom without even being ran thru the p.a. The only reason I'm set on the prx tops is because I already have four of them that I use as monitors when on bigger stages and running my passive f.o.h. systems. I plan to just go all powered for the smaller joints. 2 monitors and 2 mains. Should make set up and tear down a breeze. Each band member grabs one thing and let's roll.
Re: 12 inch subs
How about the JBL PRX715XLF? 56 lbs.
http://www.jblpro.com/www/products/portable-market/prx700-series/prx715xlf#.VvLQ8-IrKR0
How about the JBL PRX715XLF? 56 lbs.
http://www.jblpro.com/www/products/portable-market/prx700-series/prx715xlf#.VvLQ8-IrKR0
Re: 12 inch subs
I have one of the PRX715xlf. It has been out on a couple of gigs but I have yet to hear it myself. Only experience I have is moving it around. In that respect the size and weight is very manageable. Once I get a good listen I am hoping to snag another to have a pair to cluster.
I have one of the PRX715xlf. It has been out on a couple of gigs but I have yet to hear it myself. Only experience I have is moving it around. In that respect the size and weight is very manageable. Once I get a good listen I am hoping to snag another to have a pair to cluster.
Re: 12 inch subs
The REAL question is-How loud and low do YOU need your system to go?
Without that information, and discussion is pretty much useless.
If you get a sub that doesn't do the job-then who cares how light it is?
If you get a sub that is loud enough-but doesn't go low enough-it doesn't matter. And vice versa-if it goes low enough-but doesn't get loud enough, then it is a waste of money
The physical size of the driver is pretty much unimportant. There are plenty of 12" and smaller subs that go lower than most 21" subs.
What you need to be concerned with is the physical size-weight-output-freq response and price.
The only thing that has addressed so far is the weight. Are the other areas anything goes?
A piece of gear that is properly purchased has many different considerations.
The REAL question is-How loud and low do YOU need your system to go?
Without that information, and discussion is pretty much useless.
If you get a sub that doesn't do the job-then who cares how light it is?
If you get a sub that is loud enough-but doesn't go low enough-it doesn't matter. And vice versa-if it goes low enough-but doesn't get loud enough, then it is a waste of money
The physical size of the driver is pretty much unimportant. There are plenty of 12" and smaller subs that go lower than most 21" subs.
What you need to be concerned with is the physical size-weight-output-freq response and price.
The only thing that has addressed so far is the weight. Are the other areas anything goes?
A piece of gear that is properly purchased has many different considerations.
Re: 12 inch subs
I thought it was pretty clear to everyone that "size-weight-output-freq response and price" was my main concern. Tight load ins and outs meant that I've been struggling getting around crowded backdoor kitchen entries and pool tables. Etc... By saving my back I meant that I wanted something light enough for one guy to pick up fairly reasonably. Maybe even stack 2 on a dolly to save one trip. That's not happening with 18 inch 100lb subs. Obviously I stated my band so this is for live music and occasional Dj intermissions so I'd like to go as loud and low as possible/needed depending on the crowd. I also mentioned which tops I would most likely use with the subs so I'm not sure what else to include. Thanks to everyone that was able to make something of my useless question. Next time I'll be sure to include spl numbers and the locations of every fat guy in the venue if it helps understand a simple question.
I thought it was pretty clear to everyone that "size-weight-output-freq response and price" was my main concern. Tight load ins and outs meant that I've been struggling getting around crowded backdoor kitchen entries and pool tables. Etc... By saving my back I meant that I wanted something light enough for one guy to pick up fairly reasonably. Maybe even stack 2 on a dolly to save one trip. That's not happening with 18 inch 100lb subs. Obviously I stated my band so this is for live music and occasional Dj intermissions so I'd like to go as loud and low as possible/needed depending on the crowd. I also mentioned which tops I would most likely use with the subs so I'm not sure what else to include. Thanks to everyone that was able to make something of my useless question. Next time I'll be sure to include spl numbers and the locations of every fat guy in the venue if it helps understand a simple question.
Re: 12 inch subs
There's a subwoofer corollary to "High Quality/Expedited Service/Discount Price: Select any 2." You can have loud and low, but it won't be small/light; you can have low and small but it won't be loud, etc.
I thought the JTR Growler was a good balance of those factors but it looks like you want something lighter. That quest leads to the Danley TH-Mini. Bigger price tag and possibly still too heavy for you.
Lighten up with the 'tude, dood. Questions get asked because it helps us winnow down the list of possible solutions to your needs. Understand that "20 people on the dance floor" is not a specification, it's an observation.
There's a subwoofer corollary to "High Quality/Expedited Service/Discount Price: Select any 2." You can have loud and low, but it won't be small/light; you can have low and small but it won't be loud, etc.
I thought the JTR Growler was a good balance of those factors but it looks like you want something lighter. That quest leads to the Danley TH-Mini. Bigger price tag and possibly still too heavy for you.
Lighten up with the 'tude, dood. Questions get asked because it helps us winnow down the list of possible solutions to your needs. Understand that "20 people on the dance floor" is not a specification, it's an observation.
Re: 12 inch subs
The point is you can't optimise them all at once, you have to prioritise.
But that doesn't help much - some guys can lift and carry 45kg boxes quite happily, some can't - so how big & strong is the "one guy" in your question?
Yeah, but what's needed for a live heavy metal band and a live folk band might be completely different. That's why knowing actual numbers makes it a lot easier to give useful info.
Best thing I can think of for you is to check your local hire market for any of the boxes mentioned in this thread so far and actually try them out for yourself.
I do think the ZXa1 you mention would be swamped by any of the mains you've mentioned having access to, unless you were running said mains a long way down from their max volume. If you were doing that, you'd have the chance of getting away with putting some kick in the mains and not needing the small sub anyway.
If you really do need more LF than your mains can cope with, then (although I haven't used it personally) , the PRX715XLF is about the lightest of anything mentioned in this thread that I think has any chance of doing you much good. Other manufaturers like Yamaha and QSC may have stuff broadly similar in capability if those are easier for you to get hold of.
The point is you can't optimise them all at once, you have to prioritise.
But that doesn't help much - some guys can lift and carry 45kg boxes quite happily, some can't - so how big & strong is the "one guy" in your question?
Yeah, but what's needed for a live heavy metal band and a live folk band might be completely different. That's why knowing actual numbers makes it a lot easier to give useful info.
Best thing I can think of for you is to check your local hire market for any of the boxes mentioned in this thread so far and actually try them out for yourself.
I do think the ZXa1 you mention would be swamped by any of the mains you've mentioned having access to, unless you were running said mains a long way down from their max volume. If you were doing that, you'd have the chance of getting away with putting some kick in the mains and not needing the small sub anyway.
If you really do need more LF than your mains can cope with, then (although I haven't used it personally) , the PRX715XLF is about the lightest of anything mentioned in this thread that I think has any chance of doing you much good. Other manufaturers like Yamaha and QSC may have stuff broadly similar in capability if those are easier for you to get hold of.
Re: 12 inch subs
The reason DETAILS matter is like this.
It is like somebody saying "I have been asked to do sound for a festival and they are expecting 10,000 people to show up-what speakers do I need?"
Well to start with-is the stage the only attraction? Will all 10K people be at the stage-or spread all around a park? What is the AREA to be covered?
Is this a folk festival or metal festival? Or a EDM that requires lots of deep low end? The term "DJ" can mean very different things to different people.
YOU many know exactly what you are wanting and doing-but we DO NOT-at least based on the information given.
ACTUAL ANSWERS to those type questions go a LONG WAY towards helping people HELP YOU to come up with a proper solution.
The answers are VERY different.
There is no simple answer.
The reason DETAILS matter is like this.
It is like somebody saying "I have been asked to do sound for a festival and they are expecting 10,000 people to show up-what speakers do I need?"
Well to start with-is the stage the only attraction? Will all 10K people be at the stage-or spread all around a park? What is the AREA to be covered?
Is this a folk festival or metal festival? Or a EDM that requires lots of deep low end? The term "DJ" can mean very different things to different people.
YOU many know exactly what you are wanting and doing-but we DO NOT-at least based on the information given.
ACTUAL ANSWERS to those type questions go a LONG WAY towards helping people HELP YOU to come up with a proper solution.
The answers are VERY different.
There is no simple answer.
Re: 12 inch subs
If there's a 12" sub that weighs 55 lbs, is flat to 20 Hz, does 140 dB peak, and costs $599, I want to know about it!
If there's a 12" sub that weighs 55 lbs, is flat to 20 Hz, does 140 dB peak, and costs $599, I want to know about it!
Re: 12 inch subs
Just sayin'
Well you can get the 140dB peak-but you didn't specify at what freq or how close to the speaker it is being measured---------
Just sayin'
Re: 12 inch subs
Such a thing might exist in the car stereo world. But it would require massive power, and rely on cabin gain to get the frequency response and SPL.
Such a thing might exist in the car stereo world. But it would require massive power, and rely on cabin gain to get the frequency response and SPL.
Re: 12 inch subs
To the OP, why do you think you need a 12 inch sub? There are a few light 15's out there, including the PRX715LF that was already mentioned, which is light enough to carry with one hand. Even the PRX718XLF 18 inch model is only 81 lbs which is no big deal for one person, and a good sounding box for the money. One of those is probably plenty for what you're describing. They are the natural mate to your PRX tops, that would make sense......
Also, please play nice. Unlike some forums this one has a super low ratio of jerks, no need to get your back up. People are just trying to help.
To the OP, why do you think you need a 12 inch sub? There are a few light 15's out there, including the PRX715LF that was already mentioned, which is light enough to carry with one hand. Even the PRX718XLF 18 inch model is only 81 lbs which is no big deal for one person, and a good sounding box for the money. One of those is probably plenty for what you're describing. They are the natural mate to your PRX tops, that would make sense......
Also, please play nice. Unlike some forums this one has a super low ratio of jerks, no need to get your back up. People are just trying to help.
Re: 12 inch subs
My apologies fellas! (Ivan Beaver).... On the live end the style of music is tejano/country with a few of today's hits but definitely lean towards music that couples come to dance to. On the Dj end its the same as above with more top 40 and hip hop added depending on the type of crowd that shows. I'm not totally set on 12's it's just the size that was appealing. Being able to throw them in the back of my truck along with the rest of the gear sounded nice. No need to haul the trailer around or play Tetris with the cargo van. I have no experience with any sub under 18. I own 4 peavey sp118's, 4 peavey qw 218's, and 2 Jbl stx218's. So as you can see none of those are a breeze to lug around. They do bring the boom though when needed at larger venues. On what might end up being a more expensive detour I have another question for you all. Has anyone used some of the newer 3 ways on stands? Like the ev etx35ps or the Jbl srx835s. I know some bottom end will be lost but I would think they'd pack a little more punch than raised 2ways by themselves. Just bringing 2 mains will lessen my load substantially and I could leave the amp rack altogether.
My apologies fellas! (Ivan Beaver).... On the live end the style of music is tejano/country with a few of today's hits but definitely lean towards music that couples come to dance to. On the Dj end its the same as above with more top 40 and hip hop added depending on the type of crowd that shows. I'm not totally set on 12's it's just the size that was appealing. Being able to throw them in the back of my truck along with the rest of the gear sounded nice. No need to haul the trailer around or play Tetris with the cargo van. I have no experience with any sub under 18. I own 4 peavey sp118's, 4 peavey qw 218's, and 2 Jbl stx218's. So as you can see none of those are a breeze to lug around. They do bring the boom though when needed at larger venues. On what might end up being a more expensive detour I have another question for you all. Has anyone used some of the newer 3 ways on stands? Like the ev etx35ps or the Jbl srx835s. I know some bottom end will be lost but I would think they'd pack a little more punch than raised 2ways by themselves. Just bringing 2 mains will lessen my load substantially and I could leave the amp rack altogether.