16 Channel Rackmount Mixer (MixWiz vs Soundcraft GB2R), Cheap DSP

Re: 16 Channel Rackmount Mixer (MixWiz vs Soundcraft GB2R), Cheap DSP

I own a MixWiz3, my second one. I love it and have had zero problems with either of them. It is pretty much the standard 16 channel rackmount board that most everyone pro uses for a reason. I own a Soundcraft GB4 and love it more. I have not mixed on a GB2 but I can tell you the GB4 and GB8 are a little above the MixWiz in sound quality. I agree with Tim's comments on the sound of the EQ never being bad no matter how much you push it. It is very different than the A&H in both sound and where the frequencys are even though both are 4 band with the 2 centers sweepable. I have mixed on the Onyx several times and have been impressed with it for a Mackie product. Huge improvement over everything Mackie built before. It sounds closer to the MixWiz than the old thin sounding VLZ series. The EQ is real similar to the A&H in both sound and the way a little turn makes alot of difference quick. You can sound harsh with it though as opposed to the Soundcraft having more of a too much of a good thing sound when you hit it a little too hard. If the GB2 actually sounds like the GB4 I would most likely prefer it over the MixWiz even though it has a few less features, otherwise I would still be happy on the A&H. Just my opinon for what it is worth.
 
Re: 16 Channel Rackmount Mixer (MixWiz vs Soundcraft GB2R), Cheap DSP

+1

I work for the US govt and can't tell you how much I hate committee meetings and the waste and nanny state solutions often produced.
 
Re: 16 Channel Rackmount Mixer (MixWiz vs Soundcraft GB2R), Cheap DSP

Loren Jones said:
The trick would be to get the cost of ongoing training spec'd as part of the initial capital investment in the PA system in addition to getting a proper system spec'd and installed the first time. What venue besides a church would invest over $200k in a sound system and then not have anyone but volunteers operate it and maintain it. Not to denigrate the skills of many volunteers who give their time and energy to the church by running the sound system (hey, I'm one of those people). It just doesn't seem likely that a business or even a government owned venue would make that sort of investment and not include professional operation, training and maintenance, not necessarily to have someone on staff but to include a reasonable figure in the annual budget to have a pro come in, and make sure everything is still as it should be.
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you would be very surprised. my experience seeing installed systems was that nearly all of them were installed and expected to 'run themselves'. there was never any budget given to maintenance or training and usually once i saw them they were half broken, or the settings so totally out of whack that they might as well have been. it always amazed me that they would spend upwards of a million dollars in some cases on a vey sophisticated A/V system and then give no thought whatsoever to spending money for someone to maintain it.

and BTW, i live and work in the DC metro area, so many of the venues i went to were government buildings. in fact, some of the worst offenders were the congressional office buildings on Capitol Hill...
 
Re: 16 Channel Rackmount Mixer (MixWiz vs Soundcraft GB2R), Cheap DSP

Well, then I guess I was wrong in my assessment that it was only a church problem. Too bad it is pervasive other places as well.
 
Re: 16 Channel Rackmount Mixer (MixWiz vs Soundcraft GB2R), Cheap DSP

Tim,

That's not a bad idea. I just checked ebay and it looks like they go for $1400 or so. That would blow our unfortunate budget. Perhaps there are better places to buy than ebay...

Loren
 
Re: 16 Channel Rackmount Mixer (MixWiz vs Soundcraft GB2R), Cheap DSP

Loren Jones said:
Tim,

That's not a bad idea. I just checked ebay and it looks like they go for $1400 or so. That would blow our unfortunate budget. Perhaps there are better places to buy than ebay...

Loren
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I'd say that's about right unless there's much sign of wear (I'm assuming no case is included). IME it will be money well spent - you won't ever need to buy compressors or gates, or EQs for the house or monitors. You might someday want to add another FX, but maybe not.
 
Re: 16 Channel Rackmount Mixer (MixWiz vs Soundcraft GB2R), Cheap DSP

Loren Jones said:
Tim,

That's not a bad idea. I just checked ebay and it looks like they go for $1400 or so. That would blow our unfortunate budget. Perhaps there are better places to buy than ebay...

Loren
Click to expand...

Yes, $1400 should get a used SLive 16:4:2 for you. Then get ready to spend some real money for a case as they are physically larger than the analog desks you were looking at. I don't know of any that don't have to be ordered or made to size. It would be easy to spend 40% more on the rig than the purchase price once you decide on how you want to case it for use and transport. OTOH, you can find a MixWiz 16:2dx with a case for half the cost of the used SLive.

Now you have to decide where you're going with the desk and the training of the other operators. Will you need comp/limiting on more than just a couple of vocal channels? If not, a single DBX166 will cover you and fit in a top-mount rolling rack along with any other stuff you want to put down there like a CD player/recorder, a rack drawer or two for tools and hardware and whatever else becomes necessary.

I will say that the scene recall feature of the SLive might come in handy to re-set the board for certain program templates. They are of little use, though, for anything other than initial setup as the recall of a scene mutes audio output for a couple of seconds and then requires you to physically match up the channel and aux settings via the LED displays. It would be just as quick and easy to print out some "board sheets" (which can be copied from the MixWiz manual), draw in your settings for the various program usages and just go from there.
 
Re: 16 Channel Rackmount Mixer (MixWiz vs Soundcraft GB2R), Cheap DSP

Dick,

I think that for all the reasons you mention the SLive is not the solution for us. We won't need much outboard and what we might use we have sitting in a closet unused currently. As far as training, that would be a significant issue, but the cost would be even more significant a problem for us. If we were going to go digital I would be tempted by the new Mackie iPad based mixer.

Loren
 
Re: 16 Channel Rackmount Mixer (MixWiz vs Soundcraft GB2R), Cheap DSP

Loren Jones said:
Dick,

I think that for all the reasons you mention the SLive is not the solution for us. We won't need much outboard and what we might use we have sitting in a closet unused currently. As far as training, that would be a significant issue, but the cost would be even more significant a problem for us. If we were going to go digital I would be tempted by the new Mackie iPad based mixer.

Loren
Click to expand...

Training on the SLive is no different than training on a MixWiz. It is not a full "digital" console in the sense that the routing can be layered and dynamics and FX processing need to be patched or assigned. It is what I call "digilog", meaning that the signal flow within the board itself is in digi-world, but the routing and application of processing and FX is straight ahead "analog" in format.

As for iPad based mixing........I'd really not want to go there. Too many potential points of failure and/or confusion for the recently initiated.

The #1 concern for me in any such situation is to confer an understanding of the basics of operation upon those who will be responsible for system set-up and operation. These principles are not necessarily "equipment-dependent", but rather govern the use of any gear chosen to accomplish the required tasks. Teaching the operators to "think like an engineer" regarding how to trouble-shoot any problems or to utilize the tools available to accomplish the required tasks would be for me the top priority.

And that can be done with the simplest of gear.
 
Re: 16 Channel Rackmount Mixer (MixWiz vs Soundcraft GB2R), Cheap DSP

Dick Rees said:
The #1 concern for me in any such situation is to confer an understanding of the basics of operation upon those who will be responsible for system set-up and operation. These principles are not necessarily "equipment-dependent", but rather govern the use of any gear chosen to accomplish the required tasks. Teaching the operators to "think like an engineer" regarding how to trouble-shoot any problems or to utilize the tools available to accomplish the required tasks would be for me the top priority.

And that can be done with the simplest of gear.
Click to expand...

Dick,

Well stated point on teaching the operators to "think like an engineer". Easier said than done. Maybe I need to teach myself to think like an engineer before I can teach others to do so....

Loren Jones
 
Re: 16 Channel Rackmount Mixer (MixWiz vs Soundcraft GB2R), Cheap DSP

For the record, Road Ready does now have a cost effective case for the SL16:4:2 that is available off the shelf.
 
Re: 16 Channel Rackmount Mixer (MixWiz vs Soundcraft GB2R), Cheap DSP

Jay Barracato said:
For the record, Road Ready does now have a cost effective case for the SL16:4:2 that is available off the shelf.
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Yes, they have a case. But I believe the OP was/is looking for a rack. I took that to mean something on wheels which can be rolled out and set up without a table or other support and have program-associated equipment mounted/stored in the rack spaces below the mixer. Before I could afford a rack for my first MixWiz, I built a serviceable unit from 5/8 oak-veneered plywood. All I had to buy was a couple pairs of break-apart hinges, some recessed handles and the rack rails. I also rigged the front cover with a tuck-away gate leg which let me set it up as a work table off the side of the rack. Total investment (with scavenged casters) was probably around $40. A bit heavy, yes, but very functional and it rolled along as well as any lighter-weight store-bought models....
 
Re: 16 Channel Rackmount Mixer (MixWiz vs Soundcraft GB2R), Cheap DSP

I am planning to have the entire system contained in one rolling case with a slant top mixer rack on the top. I am actually leaning toward a bit shorter rack (8 or 10 spaces) and setting that up on top of a table. We don't have need for 16 rack spaces below nor do we have equipment to fill them. I plan to have 2 amps at 2 spaces each, 1 space of wireless, 1 space of DSP. I don't think an 8 space rack with a slant top mixer sitting on top of a folding table will be too tall, will it? I would put the amps in a separate case to sit near the stage, but the plan is to keep the deployment very simple and self contained.

Loren Jones.

Dick Rees said:
Yes, they have a case. But I believe the OP was/is looking for a rack. I took that to mean something on wheels which can be rolled out and set up without a table or other support and have program-associated equipment mounted/stored in the rack spaces below the mixer. Before I could afford a rack for my first MixWiz, I built a serviceable unit from 5/8 oak-veneered plywood. All I had to buy was a couple pairs of break-apart hinges, some recessed handles and the rack rails. I also rigged the front cover with a tuck-away gate leg which let me set it up as a work table off the side of the rack. Total investment (with scavenged casters) was probably around $40. A bit heavy, yes, but very functional and it rolled along as well as any lighter-weight store-bought models....
Click to expand...
 
Re: 16 Channel Rackmount Mixer (MixWiz vs Soundcraft GB2R), Cheap DSP

Loren Jones said:
I am planning to have the entire system contained in one rolling case with a slant top mixer rack on the top. I am actually leaning toward a bit shorter rack (8 or 10 spaces) and setting that up on top of a table. We don't have need for 16 rack spaces below nor do we have equipment to fill them. I plan to have 2 amps at 2 spaces each, 1 space of wireless, 1 space of DSP. I don't think an 8 space rack with a slant top mixer sitting on top of a folding table will be too tall, will it? I would put the amps in a separate case to sit near the stage, but the plan is to keep the deployment very simple and self contained.

Loren Jones.
Click to expand...

That case may end up too tall to put on a table, and will be heavy (and bulky) enough to require 2 people to move. I'd go with a rolling rack and fill the extra spaces with drawers (for cables, mics, etc.)
 
Re: 16 Channel Rackmount Mixer (MixWiz vs Soundcraft GB2R), Cheap DSP

Rob Timmerman said:
That case may end up too tall to put on a table, and will be heavy (and bulky) enough to require 2 people to move. I'd go with a rolling rack and fill the extra spaces with drawers (for cables, mics, etc.)
Click to expand...

Yup.
 
Re: 16 Channel Rackmount Mixer (MixWiz vs Soundcraft GB2R), Cheap DSP

I have my mixwiz in a rolling rack with 16 spaces below. I am currently only using 5 spaces for outboard but i have a 100' 16x4 snake coiled in there. I am not sure exactly how much it weighs in that configuration (i can lift it out of and back into my trailer by myself though I prefer not to). I have found this to be extremely convenient. When I get to the gig I connect the stagebox to the amp rack then roll the mixer back to the mix position and the unneeded portion of the snake stays neatly coiled in the rolling rack. At FOH i am totally self contained. For gigs where there is a souncheck opportunity i can roll back up to the side of the stage to line check and get a rough monitor mix where the band can communicate with me.
 
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