3x12+2"wNL8's&4Xti4000's
- Thread starter Gene Hardage
- Start date
Re: 3x12+2"wNL8's&4Xti4000's
Those are nice, I like the form factor.
PS: Watch you toes, those are hardly craftsmans's boots !!
Those are nice, I like the form factor.
PS: Watch you toes, those are hardly craftsmans's boots !!
Re: 3x12+2"wNL8's&4Xti4000's
Look nice, I think you're going to have a lot of fun studying the off axis effects of crossovers when you start to frequency shade those 12s!
Did you remember to buy all your speakers from B&C? Otherwise it won't sound any good. I Swear.
Look nice, I think you're going to have a lot of fun studying the off axis effects of crossovers when you start to frequency shade those 12s!
Did you remember to buy all your speakers from B&C? Otherwise it won't sound any good. I Swear.
Re: 3x12+2"wNL8's&4Xti4000's
Why not make that HF horn a bit larger, better response and pattern control - then add a 4th 12" and incorporate them into that one larger horn?
(Danley fan-boy hat on)
Why not make that HF horn a bit larger, better response and pattern control - then add a 4th 12" and incorporate them into that one larger horn?
(Danley fan-boy hat on)
Re: 3x12+2"wNL8's&4Xti4000's
He has a few things that have B & C stuff in them like some wild coax double driver horn thing. These will have neo Faitals. I just loaded up one and put it on a bathroom scale and it said 85 pounds so even with the metal grill it should be less than 90.
He has a few things that have B & C stuff in them like some wild coax double driver horn thing. These will have neo Faitals. I just loaded up one and put it on a bathroom scale and it said 85 pounds so even with the metal grill it should be less than 90.
Re: 3x12+2"wNL8's&4Xti4000's
yeehaw - here's a pic of the last 12 going in just before the grill metal. Can't wait to fire them up.
yeehaw - here's a pic of the last 12 going in just before the grill metal. Can't wait to fire them up.
Re: 3x12+2"wNL8's&4Xti4000's
Nice looking cabs Gene. The form factor is cool. What's the HF driver?
I agree with Bennett that off axis response will be one of the greatest challenges with that processing strategy/driver arrangement, but hope you are able to achieve great results that you are happy with.
Please be sure to update us as you tweak these.
Nice looking cabs Gene. The form factor is cool. What's the HF driver?
I agree with Bennett that off axis response will be one of the greatest challenges with that processing strategy/driver arrangement, but hope you are able to achieve great results that you are happy with.
Please be sure to update us as you tweak these.
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Re: 3x12+2"wNL8's&4Xti4000's
Time for another update. Just for clarification - this is a speaker that I dreamed up and asked Ramsdell to make for me. They came up with the design and the components based on my basic idea for a high powered column that would work well with multiples. I've been fascinated with the idea of shading the crossover points and using multiple amps with DSP for powering them. These were inspired by hearing some of the Ramsdell products that have that feature but were smaller and used conventional but complex passive crossovers. They sounded great but I wanted more firepower so I figured bigger is better and they agreed to indulge me by making a bigger better column. Yesterday we were able to tweak the rack of 4 Xti4002's with System Architect and some kind of machine with flashing leds and a fancy mic. Adjustments were made and the results were stunning. On the downside I can see a bit work ahead of me replacing rivets that were too short to hold the NL8's
Time for another update. Just for clarification - this is a speaker that I dreamed up and asked Ramsdell to make for me. They came up with the design and the components based on my basic idea for a high powered column that would work well with multiples. I've been fascinated with the idea of shading the crossover points and using multiple amps with DSP for powering them. These were inspired by hearing some of the Ramsdell products that have that feature but were smaller and used conventional but complex passive crossovers. They sounded great but I wanted more firepower so I figured bigger is better and they agreed to indulge me by making a bigger better column. Yesterday we were able to tweak the rack of 4 Xti4002's with System Architect and some kind of machine with flashing leds and a fancy mic. Adjustments were made and the results were stunning. On the downside I can see a bit work ahead of me replacing rivets that were too short to hold the NL8's
Re: 3x12+2"wNL8's&4Xti4000's
The horn driver is a 2" Faital. All of the FOH speakers will be Faital's (sorry Bennett)
The horn driver is a 2" Faital. All of the FOH speakers will be Faital's (sorry Bennett)
Tim Weaver
Senior
Re: 3x12+2"wNL8's&4Xti4000's
What kind of horizontal coverage are you getting? Are you trying to make them arrayable?
What kind of horizontal coverage are you getting? Are you trying to make them arrayable?
Re: 3x12+2"wNL8's&4Xti4000's
Here's a pic of all of them - 3 per side - 60x40 horns.
Here's a pic of all of them - 3 per side - 60x40 horns.
Re: 3x12+2"wNL8's&4Xti4000's
That coverage doesn't look to be 180° (3x60) What about the interaction between HF drivers? Have you put pink noise in and walked the pattern?
That coverage doesn't look to be 180° (3x60) What about the interaction between HF drivers? Have you put pink noise in and walked the pattern?
Re: 3x12+2"wNL8's&4Xti4000's
No I have not had a chance really hear them up to speed. I plan on splaying them a bit more than the pic shows and there may be a bit of overlap or combing but I'll only use 3 per side when outside with room to spray everywhere. Inside I would probably use only 1 or 2 per side or my older powered stuff depending on the room. We'll have to get someone with a measurement mic and some knowhow to tell me what kind of coverage they have. I'll use my ears this Saturday and report back.
Re: 3x12+2"wNL8's&4Xti4000's
Can you rotate the horn for a 40 degree horizontal coverage?
Might be able to work in the 3rd cab per side more often
Can you rotate the horn for a 40 degree horizontal coverage?
Might be able to work in the 3rd cab per side more often
Re: 3x12+2"wNL8's&4Xti4000's
No - the horn lens is not quite square and will not flip in this cab. That said I will never need 3 per side anywhere but large outside events. If I use this inside it will only be 2 per side.
No - the horn lens is not quite square and will not flip in this cab. That said I will never need 3 per side anywhere but large outside events. If I use this inside it will only be 2 per side.
Re: 3x12+2"wNL8's&4Xti4000's
OK - It's Monday morning and I'm sipping my coffee and gloating in the glory of a job well done - not 1 squeal and the sound these things make is noticeably AWSOME! As for the way they act when arrayed - if there is any horn or speaker overlap it's not enough to notice and the sound is even throughout the entire area. They throw a loooooong way. The event had a fashion show with a catwalk down the center so performers were able to walk out front with mics and sing with no feedback clearly above the level of the band. The interesting part is that none of the vocal mics had any EQ tweeking - they were all set flat. (a last minute firmware update was needed to sync the updated iPad app and it wiped all my settings so I had to start over from scratch) The only thing I fiddled with on the vocal mics was the comp/limit section of the PreSonus StudioLive board because I didn't want them hurting anyone. They cut off at 66hz so the vocals are fat all the way to the bottom of even the lowest male voice.
OK - It's Monday morning and I'm sipping my coffee and gloating in the glory of a job well done - not 1 squeal and the sound these things make is noticeably AWSOME! As for the way they act when arrayed - if there is any horn or speaker overlap it's not enough to notice and the sound is even throughout the entire area. They throw a loooooong way. The event had a fashion show with a catwalk down the center so performers were able to walk out front with mics and sing with no feedback clearly above the level of the band. The interesting part is that none of the vocal mics had any EQ tweeking - they were all set flat. (a last minute firmware update was needed to sync the updated iPad app and it wiped all my settings so I had to start over from scratch) The only thing I fiddled with on the vocal mics was the comp/limit section of the PreSonus StudioLive board because I didn't want them hurting anyone. They cut off at 66hz so the vocals are fat all the way to the bottom of even the lowest male voice.
Re: 3x12+2"wNL8's&4Xti4000's
So what king of processing did you end up with? The dsp in the XTis ? What settings ended up working for you? Crossover points? Slopes? PEQ? Are you running 2-way, 3-way, 4-way ? Very interested to know.
So what king of processing did you end up with? The dsp in the XTis ? What settings ended up working for you? Crossover points? Slopes? PEQ? Are you running 2-way, 3-way, 4-way ? Very interested to know.
Silas Pradetto
Graduate Student
Re: 3x12+2"wNL8's&4Xti4000's
I think these boxes would be fantastic candidates for a FIR linear-phase crossover. This would theoretically eliminate the off-axis mess if these were to be run 4-way with progressive crossover points.
I think these boxes would be fantastic candidates for a FIR linear-phase crossover. This would theoretically eliminate the off-axis mess if these were to be run 4-way with progressive crossover points.
Re: 3x12+2"wNL8's&4Xti4000's
I'm not familiar with the terminology but I think Silas has nailed it. I bought a USB hub for my laptop and we fired up System Architect with all 4 amps running. Ramsdell brought an old but trusty frequency analyzer with a fancy measurement mic and we sent pink noise into all 4 amps to measure. Yes it's a 4 way design. Sorry I can't tell you the exact details but I do remember adjusting the time alinement slightly to compensate for the horn length vs. speakers and of course the horn driver level had to be brought down some to match the speakers. The horn drivers are all 16 ohm so they pull less watts from the amp compared to the 8 ohm paper speakers. Yes - the crossover points are progressive - they all go down to 66hz at the bottom but cross lower between horn and speaker from top to bottom. There was 1 dip and 1 peak that were adjusted for the paper speakers and something was done to the horn too. The speakers are rated at around 600 watts rms each and the amps can deliver around 500 watts rms give or take a few depending on how many speakers I hook up at a time. That's roughly 2000 watts per cab with no caps or iron in the way causing issues - THEY ROCK!!! They sit on top of 2 double 18 cabs with the same series of Faital speakers (1000 watters) and they are aux fed by 2 separate Crown Xti6002 amps. So depending on how you add the watts - the total FOH watts are at least 20,000 and maybe 24,000 - 3x2" horns and 9x12" speakers on top with 4x18"s per side. It's a formidable ground stack and it sounds very hi-fi. 8)~~
I'm not familiar with the terminology but I think Silas has nailed it. I bought a USB hub for my laptop and we fired up System Architect with all 4 amps running. Ramsdell brought an old but trusty frequency analyzer with a fancy measurement mic and we sent pink noise into all 4 amps to measure. Yes it's a 4 way design. Sorry I can't tell you the exact details but I do remember adjusting the time alinement slightly to compensate for the horn length vs. speakers and of course the horn driver level had to be brought down some to match the speakers. The horn drivers are all 16 ohm so they pull less watts from the amp compared to the 8 ohm paper speakers. Yes - the crossover points are progressive - they all go down to 66hz at the bottom but cross lower between horn and speaker from top to bottom. There was 1 dip and 1 peak that were adjusted for the paper speakers and something was done to the horn too. The speakers are rated at around 600 watts rms each and the amps can deliver around 500 watts rms give or take a few depending on how many speakers I hook up at a time. That's roughly 2000 watts per cab with no caps or iron in the way causing issues - THEY ROCK!!! They sit on top of 2 double 18 cabs with the same series of Faital speakers (1000 watters) and they are aux fed by 2 separate Crown Xti6002 amps. So depending on how you add the watts - the total FOH watts are at least 20,000 and maybe 24,000 - 3x2" horns and 9x12" speakers on top with 4x18"s per side. It's a formidable ground stack and it sounds very hi-fi. 8)~
~
Re: 3x12+2"wNL8's&4Xti4000's
How does it sound off axis, say 30° or so to either side and up/down?
How does it sound off axis, say 30° or so to either side and up/down?
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