Another one of those...

K

Kevin Unger

Freshman
Sep 20, 2011
35
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0
Metro Detroit
How to get the foot in the door threads.


On my first post here, even. I'd like to think anyone involved in these forums first and foremost. I've learned a (metric) ton lurking here and elsewhere.


Now for something I cannot find an answer to. I'm just going on 24, and I'm not liking my current career choice. I make tooling/parts for aerospace, keeping aging war birds up in the air mostly. I've been doing some sort of machine work since I was 17. I've found myself to not enjoy it as much as I once did. I started tinkering in audio far before I had schooling in anything else, and I own a nice little rig now.

The rig's been great side money, but local company's have run me out of the market. I average around a gig a month and it's usually a bottom-feeder style show for little money for a friend. It's great and all: because I enjoy it. The little money it does bring in is nice, but the work is what makes it.



If I could only figure out how to make a few bucks doing this. I've found that the audio industry is tight-knit, I can't think of a place the hires off the street. Schooling is another thing: I don't see any FOH classes offered anywhere....
 
Re: Another one of those...

Kevin Unger said:
Schooling is another thing: I don't see any FOH classes offered anywhere....
Click to expand...

http://www.proaudioseminars.com/seminar-2011-09 There might be a seat or 2 left. This course will make you think about FOH and mixing in new ways. Highly recommended.

I remember you from the old PSW forums, Kevin. Welcome to Soundforums.net, brought to you by David Karol and Bennett Prescott.

Gigs are more competitive and it's harder to make a profit than ever. Figure out what aspects of sound appeal most to you; what kinds of work your rig is capable of doing. From the overlaps, ask yourself if there is a place for your services among existing providers. Are there niche markets that are under-served? What additional value-added services can you provide that would give you an advantage over competitors?

Most audio communities are just that.. communities. You're a neighbor, so go be neighborly. You need to network with other guys and gals that do what you do and work on group referrals.

You might want to do searches for previous posts about professional networking, getting started, education & training. Use Google's advanced search to limit hits to this site "soundforums.net" and 2 variations of the PSW forums.... the current one "forums.prosoundweb.com" and the "old" "srforums.prosoundweb.com" I know you've read much of it before, but for the most part the ideas and advice are still valid.

Have fun, good luck.

Tim Mc

ps. You're a machinist? You need to hook up with Nimrod Weber of Balanced Tilter® fame.
 
Re: Another one of those...

Hey Kevin!

Great to have you around. Welcome to the community, and yes you are right. It is one of the tightest knit communities you'll find around. Many of the fine folks on here are actual real life friends and work together on a regular basis. I, don't know anyone personally on here, yet. Hope that will change soon.

I'm a bit confused as to what you're asking here. Are you asking how to join the community? Well, you already have. You work, you enjoy it, and you're on here. Are you asking how to make a few bucks? Then you already are, just not maybe what you're looking at making. Starting a company these days seems to be REALLY hard, ask anyone on here. Are you asking where to learn how to mix FOH? Well, I can safely say that all of us on here are still learning that art! :lol: There is no school in the world that can teach you the know-how to work through the common issues of mixing FOH. It's the school of hard knocks that apply here. Sure, schools can teach you some different aspects of how to EQ something, or place something in a mix. But what do you when the guitarists tone isn't ideal and what you're used to? What do you do when you can't mix above a certain dB without your client(promoter) getting fined? What do you do when the vocalist all of a sudden cups there hands around the mic and you can't see it from a couple hundred feet away at FOH, only that you can hear something drastically different? These things are learned on the field, being around the pros that have done this since before you were born. How do I know this? Because this is what I've learned in my ventures as a sound guy in the field

If there is one other thing that I can tag on to the end of that, is that by all means, do whatever is necessary to hone your fundamentals. I started by jumping right to mixing, and jumped past ALL of the crucial fundamental principles. So the last year or so of my career have been doing nothing but going back to the basics.

You're in Detroit, which isn't a small town by any means. Have you looked at any regional companies out there that might take on an intern or shop worker? I spent my summer doing that, and let me tell, you it opens your eyes. You learn how to rewire cabinets and make cables and clean cables. But it's doing those things, that get you around people doing exactly what you want to do. It allows you to listen, and ask questions when you can.

This is all just my 2 cents, and it might differ from others on here, but I think that you'll find that most will tell you the same thing. I know because many people told me the same thing when I was starting out.

Keep yourself around here mate, and happy learning!
 
Re: Another one of those...

A lot of familiar names on here Tim, and a lot more laid back feel. Major thanks to Bennett and David.

I'm battling some personal debit I've got myself into, beyond that I'm looking into various trade classes like you mentioned. Most are out of state, so a nice roadtrip when my VW gets running again (god I miss 48MPG) will be fun (and educational to boot.)

Think I've grown out of my budget DIY rig. I'd like to start mixing bands and such on it before moving on. It's all BFD cabs (six Otop12, four T39 slim) and qsc power currently. I REALLY want to make the jump to SAC right off the bat, and have an 01v96 as backup. My Niche before was dubstep shows: I had six THT's that played nice and low in small rooms. The trend here is still going strong, but I've been undercut. There is a point where even I will turn down the gig.


I did just book one of the largest Halloween shows in the area, and I've just been asked to run FOH ontop of providing sound. Really looking forward to that. Costumes gonna be the hardest part of the night.


Not just a machinist, I do a lot (majority) of work in Composites. Working on a few audio related composite projects there, but it's a very slow pace. I look at enough while doing the daily grind, not something I enjoy coming home to.


I've chatted with Nimrod briefly over on a different forum, he's one busy guy. He has an interesting flyware setup for his DRs (If I remember correctly)
 
Re: Another one of those...

John,

Apologies if my initial post was unclear. I know it's only Tuesday, but it's been a long week.

Cliffnotes:
-Dislike my current carrer
-Have a small company, Not earning much (Loving it)
-Needs to figure out a place to either work, or get more freelance (networking)
-??? (success?)


I know of a few local companies, A couple of which most likely have members on here (back to that tight-knit deal) How would one lookup a regional/touring provider? The how would one create a resume, I have no work history in this industry. I can't say that my current career has anything to do with audio.


At this point, I'm think I'm in a ranting mode. I think it's around time for sleep. Thanks all that have/going to post, getting the view from the inside is helping clear some doubts up.
 
Re: Another one of those...

Hello Kevin! Your name looks familiar, and though I don't know you personally, welcome to SFN.

I had the same problem as you for a long time - I had a business, I had gear, but I didn't have a lot of gigs keeping me busy. The first thing I had to learn was how to turn a hobby into a business. Formerly, I'd buy whatever gear I felt like, aspiring to achieve some new high level of rig that could power shows that I would never get. Lately, I have a rig that exactly fits the shows I do, and now that I finally realized that it's sufficient the way it is, I can work on networking with customers and refining things in the rig without spending a ton of money. Now I'm finally seeing ROI on gear, I'm paying off debt, and things are going great.

If you find the right market, it may not even matter what rig you have. Your customers will likely be hiring you for the trait that sets you apart from the other guys in your area. With your dubstep rig, why did people hire you to begin with? What are the guys that undercut you doing? What can you do that the competition can't that can get you back in the door, and that would get the promoters to realize why you're worth more?

The market I'm in now doesn't mind paying a premium for premium sound. They're done dealing with guys that mess up constantly. There are a ton of sound guys that charge $500/day for a rig, and even if the rig is decent, they can't keep up with the constantly changing needs of my clients, and they end up with a disaster. Once my clients realized that when they hire me, there is no disaster, I keep getting the business, even though I charge way more.
 
Re: Another one of those...

Silas Pradetto said:
I had the same problem as you for a long time - I had a business, I had gear, but I didn't have a lot of gigs keeping me busy. The first thing I had to learn was how to turn a hobby into a business. Formerly, I'd buy whatever gear I felt like, aspiring to achieve some new high level of rig that could power shows that I would never get. Lately, I have a rig that exactly fits the shows I do, and now that I finally realized that it's sufficient the way it is, I can work on networking with customers and refining things in the rig without spending a ton of money. Now I'm finally seeing ROI on gear, I'm paying off debt, and things are going great.
Click to expand...

And that's the key to success right there. Find a rig and a market that'll make you money, and sticking to it(until you actually find yourself getting into bigger gigs).

I gave up on owning a "big" PA a few years ago. The market was slow, and my gear was sitting most of the time. I've since completely restructured my little company and turned it into something quite profitable. The "bigest" PA I own now is some Mackie HD1531's... I've got a bunch of SRM450's and some powered subs too. But, the gear is out making money every weekend. I'm busier than ever before, and the gear's paid for itself. I post on craigslist and a few other local media sources. Dry rentals are huge. People come to me all the time needing a basic SOS PA rental for their school, church or whatever. I also get the usual bar gigs or gigs that need a tech with the PA too. Word of mouth and providing a high quality service keeps bringing back the same people, and new people all the time.

You're on the right track. Keep providing a high quality service, and your friends will recommend you to their friends, and so on. In the mean time, asking around at local PA companies if they need an extra hand is never a bad idea. Interning and showing that you can do the work always leaves a good impression with people, and they will probably keep asking you to come back and help.


Evan
 
Re: Another one of those...

Charlie Zureki said:
Hello Kevin,

PM me with your phone number and a good time to call. I believe I can help you.

Hammer
Click to expand...

Kevin, absolutely make sure to take him up on this offer, that's very generous on Hammer's part.

It sounds to me like you need to get your feet wet in a variety of situations outside of your current sphere of influence. I would suggest forgetting about gear for the moment, and investing in opportunities for knowledge and real world experience. That is what really matters most at the end of the day.
 
Re: Another one of those...

Hi Kevin. I'll offer an opinion from a "guy with a different day job" perspective.

Growing up, I had two main areas of interest - music, and computers/electronics. I believed- and still do - that if I applied myself, I had/have enough musical talent to have a carreer as a touring/studio keyboardist. I was never star struck and was pretty confident that I'd never be the next Billy Joel, so the choice came down to the following:

A: I could pursue music, spend my life in a bus, and make next to nothing and therefore have no money for keyboards or technology toys, while trying to pursue a technology hobby on the side

or

B: I could pursue a carreer in technology, for which there was demand and that paid much MUCH more money, and have more resources for both technology interests and music/production interests.

I ended up choosing option B. 15 or so years on from that particular life decision point I'm very glad I made the choice I did. Is my job boring/unenjoyable at times? Certainly. Have I felt the same way occasionally about music or sound? Absolutely. Now that I have come to know myself better, I see that I really benefit from having my hands in a lot of different cookie jars. If I would have pursued a music or production career, I'm certain the fun would drain out, just as happens with pretty much everybody's day job.

Have I "sold out" from pursuing my childhood dreams? Probably. Is my life a lot better off after looking over both paths with a sober eye? Definitely.

It's perfectly fine to change careers, just make sure you're not being sucked in to greener grass on the other side of your particular fence.
 
Re: Another one of those...

Silas Pradetto said:
If you find the right market, it may not even matter what rig you have. Your customers will likely be hiring you for the trait that sets you apart from the other guys in your area. With your dubstep rig, why did people hire you to begin with? What are the guys that undercut you doing? What can you do that the competition can't that can get you back in the door, and that would get the promoters to realize why you're worth more?

The market I'm in now doesn't mind paying a premium for premium sound. They're done dealing with guys that mess up constantly. There are a ton of sound guys that charge $500/day for a rig, and even if the rig is decent, they can't keep up with the constantly changing needs of my clients, and they end up with a disaster. Once my clients realized that when they hire me, there is no disaster, I keep getting the business, even though I charge way more.
Click to expand...

I've always been one of those "Always there, Never seen" kind of people. I'll add my .02 in some threads when I can, but I'm usually just on here/other forums to soak up information and others experiences. (I also go by "Monomer" on some other forums...)


-I'm not outing the companies responsible for the undercutting. It may be helping them a little, but it's hurting all of us here locally.


The main problem around here is: EVERYONE has a "great" PA, and will (usually) help promoters out just to play, get their name on a flier and gas money. I've been guilty of that myself, more times then I'd like to count. I've learned my lesson and cut down on that, the other bottom-feeders can take it and burn out before they make a buck. Though it'd be good for networking, it got me no-where. Theirs always someone willing to do it cheaper and times are rough in this city.

The "rig" as it sits is getting toned down, and getting lighter. Switching from powerlights to IPR's and shallow racks. My back feels better with just me thinking about it. Lighter equals quicker setup/tear down, and less overall work. Not to mention I transport everything in a normal mini-van now. The Brostep rig was nice, but it required a larger van to get around. The club they resided at is closed now due to liquor license issues. It was great when the place was open, leave the subs/amps (they had tops) there, go in once a month and flick on the amp rack. do sound check, collect money. Loved it.

-I'd like to get a few cabs to rent out, but I have enough debt for myself currently. Need to take care of all that before my credit score takes a big hit.





Charlie, you have a PM. I look forward to talking to you!
 
Re: Another one of those...

Kevin Unger said:
John,

Apologies if my initial post was unclear. I know it's only Tuesday, but it's been a long week.

Cliffnotes:
-Dislike my current carrer
-Have a small company, Not earning much (Loving it)
-Needs to figure out a place to either work, or get more freelance (networking)
-??? (success?)


I know of a few local companies, A couple of which most likely have members on here (back to that tight-knit deal) How would one lookup a regional/touring provider? The how would one create a resume, I have no work history in this industry. I can't say that my current career has anything to do with audio.


At this point, I'm think I'm in a ranting mode. I think it's around time for sleep. Thanks all that have/going to post, getting the view from the inside is helping clear some doubts up.
Click to expand...

You're at a great place. Why? Because you wont settle for something other than what you love.

If you know any of those members in that tight knit deal, I would talk to them. It looks like Hammer is already wanting to offer some advice and help there, and that's what I love. A phone call to some of those companies, asking if they need some help could go a long way, but it could not. So many different ways that companies run. What's cool about it, is that there is always work to do. Make yourself available!

Some of the posts following your original one were priceless. The wisdom offered here is great, and could offer you various options on how to keep going in this industry.
 
Re: Another one of those...

It took me a long time to learn, but asking is never a bad thing.

Whats the worst that could happen? Getting turned down?


I'm going to gather my thoughts and find some local (bigger) companies, see if they need a hand. I do agree, the posts thus far in this thread has been nothing but positive and educational. It's helping myself to wrap my head around this, and every kid in my situation hopefully finds their way here.
 
Re: Another one of those...

Kevin Unger said:
The how would one create a resume, I have no work history in this industry. I can't say that my current career has anything to do with audio.
Click to expand...

don't sell yourself short. I think a lot of people here would agree that employers in this industry would much rather take on a proven hard worker with a career that requires precision and attention to detail (but not a huge amount of experience in audio) over the audio guru who isn't very focused and thinks he has nothing left to learn..

your resume should definitely include what you do at your day job, and what your responsibilities are, what sort of training it took to get there, how long you've stuck with it etc.

Jason
 
Re: Another one of those...

Philip LaDue said:
Send out resumes and letters to any company in the area.
It works, trust me.
Also don't discount Craigslist for finding gigs.
Click to expand...

One market I have yet to tap.

I'm in that grey area: I can do plenty of sounds for DJs, but I lack the FOH for bands. I'll gather an equipment list and post it. The only real downside to DIY audio, no-one knows what otops or t39s are.


On a much better note, I have confirmed a show late October: http://theatrebizarre.com/category/events/ If anyone on here's plans to go, let me know!
 
Re: Another one of those...

Jason Lavoie said:
don't sell yourself short. I think a lot of people here would agree that employers in this industry would much rather take on a proven hard worker with a career that requires precision and attention to detail (but not a huge amount of experience in audio) over the audio guru who isn't very focused and thinks he has nothing left to learn..

your resume should definitely include what you do at your day job, and what your responsibilities are, what sort of training it took to get there, how long you've stuck with it etc.

Jason
Click to expand...

Noted, Last I've updated my Resume was years ago. My current job found me via word of mouth. Should I include my own business in the resume? Granted, I have yet to actually form the business - as I've gotten so little gigs it hasn't been worth it. Got the fancy business cards and banners, though: even had a site up for a minute.

Now to figure out how to multi-quote people. my post count is loving this thread.
 
Re: Another one of those...

Kevin Unger said:
One market I have yet to tap.

I'm in that grey area: I can do plenty of sounds for DJs, but I lack the FOH for bands. I'll gather an equipment list and post it. The only real downside to DIY audio, no-one knows what otops or t39s are.


On a much better note, I have confirmed a show late October: http://theatrebizarre.com/category/events/ If anyone on here's plans to go, let me know!
Click to expand...


I think that was Nick Enright's old gig...he was a past poster from ProSoundWeb...? Aand....I didn't recieve a PM from you...

Cheers,
HAmmer
 
Re: Another one of those...

Kevin Unger said:
Noted, Last I've updated my Resume was years ago. My current job found me via word of mouth. Should I include my own business in the resume? Granted, I have yet to actually form the business - as I've gotten so little gigs it hasn't been worth it. Got the fancy business cards and banners, though: even had a site up for a minute.

Now to figure out how to multi-quote people. my post count is loving this thread.
Click to expand...

+1 to not selling yourself short.
+1 to including what you do at your day job and what it entails
+1 to saying you've run your own business on a resume(hey, a few gigs is a few more gigs than someone who doesn't have a business)
-I think this shows that you have initiative and are able to work with what you have to make things happen.
-Just know that a well established sound co may not even think twice about you having owned a business, as they could have been at it for decades.

AND PM HAMMER! His location should tell you enough that he knows a thing or two about working in the area.
 
Re: Another one of those...

Charlie, I must have hit "preview" on the last PM. I'm pretty sure it sent this time.

Sister's a graphic designer (hence the business cards and banners) I'll be out her way this weekend, So I'll get a nice resume going, and on nice paper to boot.

TheatreBizarre has gone through some changes. I was booked last year, but the state wouldn't allow them to use the grounds. I recall it being related to the massive amount of beer going around. They changed last minute to State theatre and now this year it's at the Masonic theatre. They had me at "burlesque room." Should be a fun night.
 
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