Anybody ever miked up a cannon ?

T

ToddBuckner

Freshman
Jan 26, 2011
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Georgia
www.absoluteaudiosystems.com
This is a reasonably serious question as I have been asked to mike the cannons at a Army post for the 4th of July fireworks display. I am having trouble keeping a straight face on this one but I have composed myself and I figured I would throw it out here and see what pops up !!

FYI... these are big and really loud cannons.... I am thinking ear plugs when they fire because they are so percussive.

This is a pretty large event on a huge Army post. There will be 15K plus people in attendance. We have a 10 hanging a side Vdosc rig w/16 subs at the stage and then delay towers with 8 KF730 in each tower. Full Army orchestra completely miked up and playing traditional marches and patriotic stuff with the cannons firing as part of the program. The cannons sit about 100 yards beside the stage. The system will rock the orchestra pretty impressively and actually drown out the cannons to a degree ( however they are still really loud ! ). We already battle serious time alignment issues in syncing the orchestra and the cannons. It is hard to have a discussion with the powers that be about anything as there are about 20 people in charge all scared to not be a "yes man " . Anyone who has ever worked on Army post type shows knows what I am dealing with here.
 
Re: Anybody ever miked up a cannon ?

FWIW, the Telarc recording of the 1812 Overture ("Warning, Digital Cannons"), used Schoeps Colette series condensers to mic up some vintage artillery, which was then laid into the orchestra recording in post.

I tend to think Bennett's technique would work too. :)~:-)~:smile:

GTD
 
Re: Anybody ever miked up a cannon ?

Todd, the real issue here is TIME. You've got about 270ms of time difference between the live artillery and the PA.

Artillery should be cued via radio by the orchestra's stage manager, who gets his/her cue from the conductor. The SM may have to call the "fire" cue early, depending on how long it takes to execute the cue.

Tim "damn, ain't it 1813 yet?" Mc
 
Re: Anybody ever miked up a cannon ?

Based upon various sources, the artillery fire can be anywhere from 130 to 140 dB spl at 3m, which calculates to anywhere from 100 dB to 110 dB at the stage and audience areas in your scenario. I've never had artillery fire drowned out by the PA, but then again I mix outdoor orchestra work around 95 to 98 dB measured at FOH.

If Bennett's idea helps you keep peace with the various committees, then by all means do it and bill it. I recommend a Senn 421 for this, as they've been proven to handle it cleanly. I don't anticipate your needing to worry about line losses in the mic cable from there to the mixer. :)

Edit: Forgot to mention that you'll pick up quite a bit of it in the orchestra mics. You should be prepared to delay the artillery mic if you do actually have to add it to the mix. Thanks to Tim for raising that issue.
 
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Re: Anybody ever miked up a cannon ?

Milt Hathaway said:
Based upon various sources, the artillery fire can be anywhere from 130 to 140 dB spl at 3m, which calculates to anywhere from 100 dB to 110 dB at the stage and audience areas in your scenario. I've never had artillery fire drowned out by the PA, but then again I mix outdoor orchestra work around 95 to 98 dB measured at FOH.

If Bennett's idea helps you keep peace with the various committees, then by all means do it and bill it. I recommend a Senn 421 for this, as they've been proven to handle it cleanly. I don't anticipate your needing to worry about line losses in the mic cable from there to the mixer. :)

Edit: Forgot to mention that you'll pick up quite a bit of it in the orchestra mics. You should be prepared to delay the artillery mic if you do actually have to add it to the mix. Thanks to Tim for raising that issue.
Click to expand...

What would be super cool is if you could time the firing of the cannons 270 ms early so that the acoustic arrival of cannon fire is on time with the orchestra. Then you lay in enough cannon mic, properly delayed, to provide the definition that is lost to HF attenuation of the air.
 
Re: Anybody ever miked up a cannon ?

Tim Weaver said:
What would be super cool is if you could time the firing of the cannons 270 ms early so that the acoustic arrival of cannon fire is on time with the orchestra. Then you lay in enough cannon mic, properly delayed, to provide the definition that is lost to HF attenuation of the air.
Click to expand...

And then be prepared to clean up the poop from any vets in the audience. A little too close to real for comfort ??
>>>>>>>>>> INCOMMING !!!! <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
 
Re: Anybody ever miked up a cannon ?

Michael Smithers said:
Sound check could be a hoot, trying to set the mic pre trim and maybe a compressor... :razz:

"Fire... didn't quite get it.... fire again..... and again.... one more time..."
Click to expand...

I was thinking the same thing! "And now a rehearsal with the orchestra... and one more shot to verify timing..." Better be a quick artillery crew!
 
Re: Anybody ever miked up a cannon ?

A little different, but still a cannon... I mixed a band for years that fired a confetti cannon at each show. An extra SM98 gaffed to the barrel a couple inches away from the opening (and pointing toward the direction of fire), some aggressive EQing, tight gating, and a nice reverb made for a very cool effect each time. It took me a week or two of shows to get the setting for that channel right, but it remained the same setting for years of cannon firing!
 
Re: Anybody ever miked up a cannon ?

I remember the spill from cannon fire getting into the mics of the orchestra and every amp going into protect for a second or so because i wasn't quick enough on the mute groups:( G
 
Re: Anybody ever miked up a cannon ?

A local band had every driver in their PA taken out at a biker event many years ago. I know this because I did the event in the years following and was warned before they blasted off the cannon. I was told they were "not going to pay for another PA system, so you better do whatever you have to, we'll let you know when we're shooting the cannon". I never asked how the rest of the show was the year prior...

Swerve: This just reminded me about the pile of rocks with a cross on top, just off the stage downstage right. One of the bands asked a biker what it was, the reply: "That's the last band we had that didn't play 'Born To Be Wild'". Band guy turns around to band, says, "Guys, hit it!" and the guitar player seamlessly starts "Born To Be Wild". I think they played it four or five times that night! There was also no official "end time" for this event, the last band played until someone with a lot of patches on his jacket came out of the clubhouse and yelled something like, "Time for you fuckers shut the fuck up". It was usually about daybreak, I'm guessing probably about the same time the white powdery substance was gone. And then there were the "used" vegetables and girls undergarments strewn about the stage from the so-called "Wet T-Shirt" contests that always turned into quite an exhibition. Did I mention the burnout pits?
 
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