Re: Anybody ever miked up a cannon ?
"Aww crap, they moved.. bring in the crane!"
Jason
"Aww crap, they moved.. bring in the crane!"
Jason
Anybody ever miked up a cannon ?
- Thread starter ToddBuckner
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Re: Anybody ever miked up a cannon ?
You mike them just like kick drums: One sitting inside and one in the port
~:-D~:grin:
You mike them just like kick drums: One sitting inside and one in the port
~:-D~:grin:
Re: Anybody ever miked up a cannon ?
Uh oh, I sense a "What's the best cannon mic?" thread approaching...
You mike them just like kick drums: One sitting inside and one in the port
Uh oh, I sense a "What's the best cannon mic?" thread approaching...
Re: Anybody ever miked up a cannon ?
I was about to write that I think your range of 130-140 is very low and I then found the following link that says “220db, 12 feet in front of a cannon below the muzzle”. How Loud is Too Loud? Of course it all depends on the type of cannon.
I would think there is no need to mic something that is that loud that is only 100 yards away. And I would worry that the diaphragm in the mic would disintegrate if it were too close. Even if it was not turned on and just put there to satisfy the powers that be.
I would think you would want to put the mic behind the cannon to protect it. If you do have to have it live be sure to compress it and roll off the extreme low and high ends.
A friend of mine was the cannon section for the 1812 overture with another fellow. They both had shotguns loaded with blanks and they had their own conductor signaling them when to fire. I wish I were there to see that.
Based upon various sources, the artillery fire can be anywhere from 130 to 140 dB spl at 3m, which calculates to anywhere from 100 dB to 110 dB at the stage and audience areas in your scenario. I've never had artillery fire drowned out by the PA, but then again I mix outdoor orchestra work around 95 to 98 dB measured at FOH.
If Bennett's idea helps you keep peace with the various committees, then by all means do it and bill it. I recommend a Senn 421 for this, as they've been proven to handle it cleanly. I don't anticipate your needing to worry about line losses in the mic cable from there to the mixer.
Edit: Forgot to mention that you'll pick up quite a bit of it in the orchestra mics. You should be prepared to delay the artillery mic if you do actually have to add it to the mix. Thanks to Tim for raising that issue.
I was about to write that I think your range of 130-140 is very low and I then found the following link that says “220db, 12 feet in front of a cannon below the muzzle”. How Loud is Too Loud? Of course it all depends on the type of cannon.
I would think there is no need to mic something that is that loud that is only 100 yards away. And I would worry that the diaphragm in the mic would disintegrate if it were too close. Even if it was not turned on and just put there to satisfy the powers that be.
I would think you would want to put the mic behind the cannon to protect it. If you do have to have it live be sure to compress it and roll off the extreme low and high ends.
A friend of mine was the cannon section for the 1812 overture with another fellow. They both had shotguns loaded with blanks and they had their own conductor signaling them when to fire. I wish I were there to see that.
Re: Anybody ever miked up a cannon ?
Well, since the theoretical maximum undistorted limit in air is approximately 194dB, I wonder where they got that figure and how they measured it.
Well, since the theoretical maximum undistorted limit in air is approximately 194dB, I wonder where they got that figure and how they measured it.
Re: Anybody ever miked up a cannon ?
I think you probably answered your own question there, “theoretical” and “undistorted”. I am sure that that measurement was probably very distorted.
But too I would like to know exactly how they got that measurement.
I think you probably answered your own question there, “theoretical” and “undistorted”. I am sure that that measurement was probably very distorted.
But too I would like to know exactly how they got that measurement.
Re: Anybody ever miked up a cannon ?
Any ribbon will do. Just make sure the promoter or whoever hired you understands that they will have to buy one for every cannon shot fired.
Any ribbon will do. Just make sure the promoter or whoever hired you understands that they will have to buy one for every cannon shot fired.
Re: Anybody ever miked up a cannon ?
My contribution might be to tape an old wireless lapel mic, or a Barcus Berry transducer, to the gun barrel and trigger a midi device. That in turn would be used to globally mute all the orchestra mics on a delay based on the distance of the cannon to mics. Another delay could be used to fill the gap with sound from the orchestra right before the cannon blast. Yeah, that's what I would do. Let your speakers be speakers and let the cannons be cannons. Your speakers are not cannons.
My contribution might be to tape an old wireless lapel mic, or a Barcus Berry transducer, to the gun barrel and trigger a midi device. That in turn would be used to globally mute all the orchestra mics on a delay based on the distance of the cannon to mics. Another delay could be used to fill the gap with sound from the orchestra right before the cannon blast. Yeah, that's what I would do. Let your speakers be speakers and let the cannons be cannons. Your speakers are not cannons.
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Re: Anybody ever miked up a cannon ?
To quote a friend of mine: "A DPA 4011 is an excellent choice on every source from a Melodica to a F16".
And he's tried them both
To quote a friend of mine: "A DPA 4011 is an excellent choice on every source from a Melodica to a F16".
And he's tried them both
Re: Anybody ever miked up a cannon ?
mmm..yeah. I don't know how to break this to you fellas, but that cannon is NOT a speaker. :hank_hill:
"Your speakers are not cannons."
Ehh??
mmm..yeah. I don't know how to break this to you fellas, but that cannon is NOT a speaker. :hank_hill:
Re: Anybody ever miked up a cannon ?
So.... I know I'm itching to know. How did it pan out?!?!?!
So.... I know I'm itching to know. How did it pan out?!?!?!
Re: Anybody ever miked up a cannon ?
First we panned to the left, then we panned to the right....
First we panned to the left, then we panned to the right....
Re: Anybody ever miked up a cannon ?
He'll be here all week folks. Tim"Henny Youngman" McCulloch
He'll be here all week folks. Tim"Henny Youngman" McCulloch
Re: Anybody ever miked up a cannon ?
THis is a bit late, but Heil PR-40's were used in the making of "Flags of Our Fathers"
http://www.heilsound.com/pro/sales-...ng WW 2 gun fire for Flags of our Fathers.jpg
THis is a bit late, but Heil PR-40's were used in the making of "Flags of Our Fathers"
http://www.heilsound.com/pro/sales-...ng WW 2 gun fire for Flags of our Fathers.jpg
Re: Anybody ever miked up a cannon ?
Okay,....so here is the follow up, a little slow getting back but been really busy and spending a lot of time on the golf course the last few weeks.
Most of the posts referencing the sheer volume of cannons are spot on.... the are sooo loud you can't keep them out of the 40+ mics on the stage at all and there is absolutely no need to mic them. I can get the orchestra painfully loud and you still hear the cannons. The army does use a guy with the sheet music and timers on them and they fire them almost dead in sync with the music (at the stage... not so great at some spots as the arrival time actual differs which is what caused the issue since they are concentrating on area in front of stage and not near them so they are a bit early the closer you get to the cannons.... and louder !!!)......it basically works out very well except for the the open mics picking them up.
The desire to mike them came from a clueless event organizer who knows some audio buzzwords and is a pain in the butt. He got a couple officers to agree and my pain in fore-mentioned area began. I tried to explain why the cannons did not sound right in relationship to the music in the side of the field closer to the cannons because they were firing early to be in time in the area in front of the stage. It was funny that the artillery guys understood how to fire them early to be in correct alignment , but we could not make the "boss" understand how miking them and sending the same signal back a second time a second later would not fix the problem. However my previously mentioned pain in ass solution to everything is more gear , bigger, louder but at the same budget of course; so I stuck a wireless mic over near the cannons at soundcheck and called it miked. He got a pat on the back for making sure everything was so perfect and we all got a big laugh. We actually never even took the mic back for the show and it was never in the PA as I am sure most everyone here expected.
And yes.... the cannons were heard loud and clear by those in attendance and a few folks actually suggested they may be a bit too loud because they were miked ??
and we are booked again next year.... maybe i can buy a proper cannon mic by then and dial in a little better tone ... they sounded kinda harsh and metallic !! I think i will call my Shure rep and see what they can do .....
Okay,....so here is the follow up, a little slow getting back but been really busy and spending a lot of time on the golf course the last few weeks.
Most of the posts referencing the sheer volume of cannons are spot on.... the are sooo loud you can't keep them out of the 40+ mics on the stage at all and there is absolutely no need to mic them. I can get the orchestra painfully loud and you still hear the cannons. The army does use a guy with the sheet music and timers on them and they fire them almost dead in sync with the music (at the stage... not so great at some spots as the arrival time actual differs which is what caused the issue since they are concentrating on area in front of stage and not near them so they are a bit early the closer you get to the cannons.... and louder !!!)......it basically works out very well except for the the open mics picking them up.
The desire to mike them came from a clueless event organizer who knows some audio buzzwords and is a pain in the butt. He got a couple officers to agree and my pain in fore-mentioned area began. I tried to explain why the cannons did not sound right in relationship to the music in the side of the field closer to the cannons because they were firing early to be in time in the area in front of the stage. It was funny that the artillery guys understood how to fire them early to be in correct alignment , but we could not make the "boss" understand how miking them and sending the same signal back a second time a second later would not fix the problem. However my previously mentioned pain in ass solution to everything is more gear , bigger, louder but at the same budget of course; so I stuck a wireless mic over near the cannons at soundcheck and called it miked. He got a pat on the back for making sure everything was so perfect and we all got a big laugh. We actually never even took the mic back for the show and it was never in the PA as I am sure most everyone here expected.
And yes.... the cannons were heard loud and clear by those in attendance and a few folks actually suggested they may be a bit too loud because they were miked ??
and we are booked again next year.... maybe i can buy a proper cannon mic by then and dial in a little better tone ... they sounded kinda harsh and metallic !! I think i will call my Shure rep and see what they can do .....
Re: Anybody ever miked up a cannon ?
Perhaps next year tell them that the proper cannons for a performance of 1812 are bronze Napoleons and that those 8" WWII howitzers just won't do.
Perhaps next year tell them that the proper cannons for a performance of 1812 are bronze Napoleons and that those 8" WWII howitzers just won't do.