Anyone else embracing the Line6 M20D Mixer

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bruce lomasky

Freshman
Oct 9, 2012
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OK, I know it does look like a video game, but just like the GUI interface in windows changed the way DOS worked, I was a "tad" skeptical but figured with a 30 day return policy, why not check it out. I have to say, I am so glad I decided to invest the time to understand and "grok" this new and improved (my opinion) interface and am not looking back. It does have a dual personality, yes, it markets to the musicians and tells them they don't need a sound guy (yea, right!) but that is just one of the modes of operation, the "quick tweak" mode. The deep tweak mode gives me access to all the goodies. Small, lightweight, controllable via the encoders or an iPad. More DSP than most other mixers in this size / price. Ability to change the DSP stack order, 100's of presets to speed setup. (No, I don't work for line 6, I just appreciate well engineered boxes!) It certainly ain't perfect. Wish it had more than 4 aux outs and waiting for some fixes due in the next version of the firmware, but, surprising, this is a version 1.0 that actually works!

Any other M20D users here?

Bruce
 
Re: Anyone else embracing the Line6 M20D Mixer

I doubt many on this board would use such a mixer, its more of a band mixing from stage item.
 
Re: Anyone else embracing the Line6 M20D Mixer

I understand that is how Line6 is marketing it, and without knowing the sales, I do not know how successful that focus is. (sort of like the commericals, "So easy, a caveman can do it") However, IMHO this is very similar to the Mackie 1608 but on steroids! Feature wise, I would compare it to the PreSonus and think it comes out on top. With it's limited I/O, it can not compare to the X32, but perhaps, when the X16 is released, this mixer might fit right in the middle. I have used this mixer at multi-day festivals (with the IPAD at FOH) and am a pretty happy camper.
 
Re: Anyone else embracing the Line6 M20D Mixer

While I have never seen or laid hands on a unit, I support the general approach. The problem from where I sit is multiple parts. Pricey for someone just starting out, but not a logical incremental step-up from conventional smaller, entry level gear.

It will be embraced by early adopters not scared off by the price or technology.

I wish them success but don't envy their marketing struggle.

JR
 
Re: Anyone else embracing the Line6 M20D Mixer

bruce lomasky said:
I understand that is how Line6 is marketing it, and without knowing the sales, I do not know how successful that focus is. (sort of like the commericals, "So easy, a caveman can do it") However, IMHO this is very similar to the Mackie 1608 but on steroids! Feature wise, I would compare it to the PreSonus and think it comes out on top. With it's limited I/O, it can not compare to the X32, but perhaps, when the X16 is released, this mixer might fit right in the middle. I have used this mixer at multi-day festivals (with the IPAD at FOH) and am a pretty happy camper.
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Why do you think it comes out on top when compared to Personus? The Line 6 has 12 mic inputs, four auxes, no sub groups, and the Personus 16.4.2 is a real mixer with 100mm faders, six auxes, four sub groups, 16 mic pre-amps for less money.
 
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Re: Anyone else embracing the Line6 M20D Mixer

Basic differences
Line 6 has more DSP features, ie up to 6 band parametric EQ with fully adjustable Q, Dynamic EQ, De-Esser
Line 6 has Feedback extermination on every channel so you could get rid of you Driverack for example
Line 6 has Trim tracking feature
Line 6 can WiFi to Ipad with a simple dongle rather than requiring a PC/MacBook
Line 6 can record direct fully mixed to USB/SD
Line 6 has 2 fully assignable footswitch controls
Line 6 has fully recallable scenes, Presonus has manual Gain/Faders/Master Aux returns so not fully recallable
Line 6 has 4 x FX racks as oppose to 2

Presonus is easier to access FX sends in live situation
Presonus seems a little easier to adjust quickly with faders/rotary encoders (more of them)
Presonus can send monitor signals pre or post DSP, Line 6 seems to be post DSP only, nice feature on the Presonus
Presonus has 16 mic vs 12 mic inputs,

 
Re: Anyone else embracing the Line6 M20D Mixer

bruce lomasky said:
Basic differences
Line 6 has more DSP features, ie up to 6 band parametric EQ with fully adjustable Q, Dynamic EQ, De-Esser
Line 6 has Feedback extermination on every channel so you could get rid of you Driverack for example
Line 6 has Trim tracking feature
Line 6 can WiFi to Ipad with a simple dongle rather than requiring a PC/MacBook
Line 6 can record direct fully mixed to USB/SD
Line 6 has 2 fully assignable footswitch controls
Line 6 has fully recallable scenes, Presonus has manual Gain/Faders/Master Aux returns so not fully recallable
Line 6 has 4 x FX racks as oppose to 2

Presonus is easier to access FX sends in live situation
Presonus seems a little easier to adjust quickly with faders/rotary encoders (more of them)
Presonus can send monitor signals pre or post DSP, Line 6 seems to be post DSP only, nice feature on the Presonus
Presonus has 16 mic vs 12 mic inputs,

Click to expand...

It is difficult to make a simple apples to apples comparison. While we are still in the very early days for improved operator interfaces, and letting the brain inside the box do some thinking for us.

I hope this enjoys enough success so we can see where it takes us.

JR
 
Re: Anyone else embracing the Line6 M20D Mixer

"I hope this enjoys enough success so we can see where it takes us."

It's going to tough at the price they are asking!
 
Re: Anyone else embracing the Line6 M20D Mixer

Chuck Simon said:
"I hope this enjoys enough success so we can see where it takes us."

It's going to tough at the price they are asking!
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Yuup.... Thats the crux of the biscuit...

I considered a product definition almost 15 years ago introducing cybernetic decision making to mixing, but the catch 22 is that the customer who can afford it doesn't want it, and the ones who would use it, can't easily afford it.

If the incremental technology cost was free or insignificant this would be a no-brainer. The trend for DSP content and digital control is toward lower cost, so eventually this will not be a huge cost step.

Of course I could be wrong... I know I was ahead of the market 15 years ago. I still think mix engineers burden themselves with too much busy-work that the micro-computers could manage effectively.

JR
 
Re: Anyone else embracing the Line6 M20D Mixer

John Roberts said:
I know I was ahead of the market 15 years ago. I still think mix engineers burden themselves with too much busy-work that the micro-computers could manage effectively.
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I'm waiting for the PlayStation generation to rise up and tell us old brought-up-on-analogue-heads that we have no idea whatsoever, and that they will rewrite the book on how people interface with mixers.
 
Re: Anyone else embracing the Line6 M20D Mixer

There's got to be a happy medium. I guess that's why I prefer the Personus interface. It kinda joins the best of both worlds. It still has an analog feel and quickness with the basic digital functions that I need to eliminate about 400 pounds of gear.
 
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Re: Anyone else embracing the Line6 M20D Mixer

It is easier to sell incremental evolutionary changes to experienced customers than revolutionary change, unless there is some ancillary compelling benefit (like lower cost or vastly improved performance).

I am waiting for the cost of DSP and codecs to come down so this technology can filter down into entry level products without breaking the bank. Then there will be a full upgrade path to take it to the logical conclusion.

Yamaha invested in selling digital consoles, probably losing money for years. I don't know if Line 6 is making such a long term investment.

I remain optimistic that we will see more of this as digital technology costs drop.

JR
 
Re: Anyone else embracing the Line6 M20D Mixer

All outputs have 6 band GEQ. if you use their speakers, you get 31 band EQ. (at least thats what I think...)
 
Re: Anyone else embracing the Line6 M20D Mixer

bruce lomasky said:
All outputs have 6 band GEQ. if you use their speakers, you get 31 band EQ. (at least thats what I think...)
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Yup - wouldn't bother me but after all the grief Presonus received over not having GEQ's on the auxes you'd think Line6 wouldn't want that on their heads. OTOH the Mackie DL1608 only has GEQ's on the auxes and not PEQs so we're giving them grief over that LOL.
 
Re: Anyone else embracing the Line6 M20D Mixer

I am not going to argue Line 6 strategy, mainly because I don't know it, but if the concept is to have an effective automatic feedback killer, what is the possible use for a 31 band GEQ other than to mess up the sound?

The hands-on do everything himself mix engineer is not a customer for mostly cybernetic control.

JR
 
Re: Anyone else embracing the Line6 M20D Mixer

John Roberts said:
The hands-on do everything himself mix engineer is not a customer for mostly cybernetic control.
Click to expand...

Correct ... this mixer offers a solution for those who don't know how to control every aspect of their sound. It offers very simplified control for complex processes that allow you you steer with your ears and not have to concern yourself with the technical details. The approach is somewhat like the way a producer works with a recording engineer. The producer tells the engineer he wants an instrument to be fatter and the engineer translates that to moving the controls it might take to accomplish that. This can go a long was to restore confidence in your mix if you are a band that has to mix themselves especially directly from the stage. It is very fast (once you understand the difference in controlling it compared to conventional models). It also has a number of automatic processes that keep the gain structure optimized throughout the night even as things change on stage.

Sorry ... gotta jump on a plane, but I'd be happy to answer any questions when I land.
 
Re: Anyone else embracing the Line6 M20D Mixer

Unfortunately, this product is going to die, and JR's right. Great features for a new band/mixer starting out, at a price none of them can afford.

The Mackie mixer doesn't do everything, but it does a lot at a price point that's a lot more favorable.

While Line 6 does do a lot, the product manager needs to do a bit more homework on what beginners are willing to pay for cool technology. Feature creep is a bitch, and someone should have raised their hand when the price point crested $1500 to ask, "who the heck will buy this?"

It will be interesting to see if they try to prop this up for more than a year; I'm also surprised as it had seemed several of their items, including their wireless, was spot-on in terms of price value vs. the competition.
 
Re: Anyone else embracing the Line6 M20D Mixer

Whilst some are quick to dismiss, I feel this represents a paradigm shift in the mix user interaction.

I have no need for one, nor am I likely to buy one, but it doesn't stop me recognising a new product that takes modern advances in digital, especially DSP-type stuff, and creates a first-mover entry to a market I'm quite sure others will follow.

Right now the pricepoint may be a prohibitive barrier to entry for most of the target market. However now we have a product that takes digital advances to the next logical level - others will come and be less fearful of abandoning the analogue hangovers inherent in standard digital consoles.

Once the many benefits in losing the analogue hangover are realised (and this will translate to both user interface and price) I can see a significant proportion of more pro types embracing this sort of concept.

I'm pretty sure when original digital consoles first came to market there were price issues many could not reconcile with their existing expectations.
 
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