Attempting to bring clarity to the nuclear problems facing Japan

Phil Graham

Honorary PhD
Mar 10, 2011
651
1
18
Atlanta, GA
For those of you who recognize me from the LAB over its history, you may remember my infrequent discussions of nuclear energy. From those discussions it is generally clear that I am a proponent of nuclear energy, and, with important qualifications, remain so.

The rest of this post is not going to read like something that would be written by a proponent of nuclear power, but I hope it will be a reasonable, if sobering, explanation of what I think should be expected from Japan over the coming weeks. As long as the water keeps flowing, and the fires are put out, they should get out of this with a IAEA Level 6 accident.

1. This situation is extremely serious, but not Chernobyl bad
Chernobyl was a graphite moderated reactor running at beyond full power when the reactor incident occurred. Chernobyl had no containment structure to speak of. Chernobyl had a massive graphite fire that burned for nearly three weeks, all the while chimney-stacking radionuclides into the air. The russians literally dumped thousands of tons of lead, boron, and other ceramics directly into the open core of the reactor in an attempt to reign in the fire. Japan's situation should never progress to the point of that in Chernobyl, but unfortunately that is more a commentary about the severity of Chernobyl than of the situation in Japan​

2. The GE BWR reactor with Mark 1 containment is essentially the worst design in the western world for this circumstance:
The reactors Japan installed at this facility are known to be the weakest in the face extreme circumstances of all western designs. Now, the Russian RBMK reactor (Chernobyl design) remains the world's most dangerous operating reactor, and all off them need to be shuttered, but the GE Mark 1 needs to be at the top of the list of Western designs to be decomissioned. By all accounts the Mark 1 is inferior to all other western designs (and the Russian VVER PWR).​

3. The GE BWR Mark 1 is inferior because of its suppression design:
The GE BWR Mark 1 has its suppression pool located outside of the primary containment structure. All reactor designs have a "drywell" and a "wetwell." The drywell routes any steam leakage from the reactor vessel into the wetwell. The wetwell is a very large thermal mass of water that condenses the leaking steam into water, and moderates the pressure inside the pressure vessel (keeping the pressure vessel from failing from the inside out. The GE mark 1 has this suppression pool outside of the primary containment, in the secondary containment, which is the section of the building which was damaged by the hydrogen explosions. The explosion damaged structure is now what we depend on to protect the environment from the core leakage. GE BWR Mark 2 and Mark 3 contain the drywell and wetwell inside the primary containment vessel.​

4. All three operating reactors likely have experienced melting of the fuel rods, if not the internal uranium oxide:
Nuclear reactors with the control rods inserted still have latent heat up to about 8% of their "at power" thermal energy generating capacity. This is at least several tens of megawatts, and requires thousands of gallons of water per minute to cool effectively. With water not added to the pressure vessel for multiple hours in several cases, fuel cladding melting has almost assuredly occurred in all three reactors. Expect the cleanup of the reactors to take 20 years if the situation does not worsen.​

5. As long as they keep successfully filling the three reactor cores with water, the spent nuclear fuel is a bigger problem moving forward:
Nuclear fuel generates residual heat from the decay of the radionuclide reaction products that build up inside the cladding during the "burn up" period of the fuel. These are what generate the residual heat of the shut down core, and need cooled for an extended period of time (3 years to cask storage). If the spent nuclear fuel overheats, it can release the same nuclear materials as the fuel inside reactor, only without the extensive protection of the pressure vessel and reactor containment. This would be far worse for the environment than what might happen inside the reactor containment.​

6. All operating reactors are somewhat susceptible to what is befalling Japan at the moment:
All existing reactor systems need active cooling (ie pumps and motors) of the core after a shutdown for a period of several days to weeks. All reactors rely on grid power and/or diesel backups. All diesel generators would get swamped if hit with a tall enough tsunami. Now, many existing operating reactors would behave more gracefully than the GE BWR Mk1 is currently, but everybody would have the same basic problems. I'm surprised the Japanese ever built the GE Mark 1 reactor, it does not strike me as being up to the task for a country in Japan's seismic circumstances.​

7. Future reactor systems, with passive cooling, would be much better in this situation, but the industry needs to upgrade the scope of their accident consideration:
The new Westinghouse AP1000 would, for instance, be able to cool its innards for three days using water stored on site, above the reactor, relying only on gravity. This gives you three days to figure out your next move. If this resevoir is refilled, it continues to provide cooling indefinitely. 1000 year events like this quake an tsunami need to be considered in all reactor designs, as do calamities such as a tsunami produced by a meteor hitting earth. Reactors designs that are "passively safe" should be given priority above all else.​

8. There needs to be a worldwide uniform "dire emergency" system for cases like this:
High pressure/volume pumps, and power to run them, need stockpiled globally. Uniform connections for these fixtures to all existing reactors need established. Global stockpiles of important repair systems also need to be established. Almost every US reactor is different, so we would probably be one of the biggest complications to such a scheme. I fear most nations are too proud for this sort of thing. I was surprised the Japanese waited so long for international help. If I was in Japan's shoes, I'd want both Russian and American nuclear people on site as soon as possible.​

I truly hope this doesn't get much worse, but it might. I simply hope that people can read this and understand more deeply what could happen, and some steps to make actionable from it.
 
Re: Attempting to bring clarity to the nuclear problems facing Japan

Phil, thanks for the awesome write up. One question that I've had that I've not heard talked about. As I understand it, the tsunami is what did in the reactors by flooding the back up generators. If these generators were installed in a roof top or raised platform position say 30 or so feet above ground and not in a basement or ground level location like most back up generators; would they have survived better than they have?

I have faith that the best nuclear power engineers are working to avert the worst case scenario. But my real fear is that this will put the kerbash on further nuclear power expansion and research and/or that things will get so fucked by by congressional hearings and environmental lawsuits that we are looking at 20 or more years of stalemate (i.e. more sucking on the fossil fuel tit).
 
Re: Attempting to bring clarity to the nuclear problems facing Japan

Phil, I was hoping we'd hear from you.

Would you mind telling me, when they're talking about pressure buildup - I assume the turbine steam has been vented and the heat transfer systems (the cooling towers and their loop) are destroyed. Does the "pressure buildup" refer to pressure within the containment vessel that results from the boiling off water being dumped directly on the reactor to cool it?

Hydrogen: Where did the hydrogen that exploded come from? Was it something the cooling water reacted with? Apparently these explosions took place outside the containment vessels.

"Radiactive steam" - I thought water couldn't become radioactive? Does it carry contaminates? What other radioactive gases are of concern in terms of spreading contamination?
 
Re: Attempting to bring clarity to the nuclear problems facing Japan

Phil, thanks for the awesome write up.

+1 This was a great read.

...My real fear is that this will put the kerbash on further nuclear power expansion and research and/or that things will get so fucked by by congressional hearings and environmental lawsuits that we are looking at 20 or more years of stalemate (i.e. more sucking on the fossil fuel tit).

+2.

No drilling, fission,
or peace in the Middle East.
More tar sands and coal?
 
Re: Attempting to bring clarity to the nuclear problems facing Japan

Hello Phil,
As said, thanks, and we were waiting patiently.

Regarding #6. I too am puzzled by this choice, after what I have read.
Not only in regards to it, but also when we hear how serious the Japanese take their nuclear safety.
We of course hear a lot about how Japan is the only country to have the bomb dropped on it.

Can this be regarded as anything but corner cutting in the sake of maximum profit?

And #8. It seems that their own government is also a bit frustrated with Tepco, and the information stream they are getting.

And I just read that the power plant was originally scheduled to go off line last month, and then got a ten year extension. FWIW.

Regards, Jack
 
Re: Attempting to bring clarity to the nuclear problems facing Japan

Hello again Phil,
So, since you put this up I have been wondering.
What do you favor as the best model for nuclear reactors to be run?

1) Government regulated private facilities
2) World Order oversight of private facilities
3) Government run facilities
4) Private facilities
etc.

Regards, Jack
 
Re: Attempting to bring clarity to the nuclear problems facing Japan

Hey Phil, Thanks for sharing your knowledge about nuclear reactor designs. Being curious from reading your post, I see on Wikipedia that the new reactors 3 and 4 at Plant Vogtle will indeed be the Westinghouse AP 1000s. But what about the existing 1 & 2 reactors, which are mentioned briefly as Westinghouse PWRs (pressurized water reactor). Would you please explain the differences between these two designs? And what is your opinion on the safety of the PWR?
Cheers, John
 
Re: Attempting to bring clarity to the nuclear problems facing Japan

I have faith that the best nuclear power engineers are working to avert the worst case scenario. But my real fear is that this will put the kerbash on further nuclear power expansion and research and/or that things will get so fucked by by congressional hearings and environmental lawsuits that we are looking at 20 or more years of stalemate (i.e. more sucking on the fossil fuel tit).
My long-term concern (after the emergency has long been put to bed) is exactly this—that this crisis will be used to demagogue against nuclear power plants just when we need them the most, in a time when energy cost and availability are under more pressure than they have ever been before.
 
Re: Attempting to bring clarity to the nuclear problems facing Japan

Excellent summary, Phil.

For those looking for some more background on the pros and cons of some of the different containment designs, check out this memo from the AEC http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/blogs/greeninc/hanauer.pdf

For some perspective, consider that this is a 40+ year old power station. If this were a coal or hydro plant with the same generating capacity, there likely would have been similar (if not worse) damage and loss of life. Making a generating station arbitrarily safe is an exercise in risk analysis and design, with exponentially increasing costs, but ultimately, the regulators and designers need to choose what class of events the plant needs to survive (1000 year? 100000 year? Direct strike by a large meteorite?). The mass media and public need to do their part by not engaging in hysteria over OMG RADIATION! (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_equivalent_dose).
 
Re: Attempting to bring clarity to the nuclear problems facing Japan

Phil, thanks for the awesome write up. One question that I've had that I've not heard talked about. As I understand it, the tsunami is what did in the reactors by flooding the back up generators. If these generators were installed in a roof top or raised platform position say 30 or so feet above ground and not in a basement or ground level location like most back up generators; would they have survived better than they have?

It is my understanding that despite the generators being raised, the tsunami was even taller. Ultimately, no matter how high you raise the generators, there could be a taller wave. Raising all on-site power at all reactors is a good idea, but doesn't preclude the real need for reactor designs that cool effectively under convection and gravity.


I have faith that the best nuclear power engineers are working to avert the worst case scenario.

Don't. This is a "beyond design basis" incident, and everyone is winging it. Keeping the water flowing is functionally all they can do till the fuel heating subsides, which is a process measured in weeks, not days.

Just trying to be realistic.
 
Re: Attempting to bring clarity to the nuclear problems facing Japan

Phil, I was hoping we'd hear from you.

Would you mind telling me, when they're talking about pressure buildup - I assume the turbine steam has been vented and the heat transfer systems (the cooling towers and their loop) are destroyed. Does the "pressure buildup" refer to pressure within the containment vessel that results from the boiling off water being dumped directly on the reactor to cool it?

In the event of a LOCA (loss of coolant) accident, nuclear plants are designed to be instantaneously hermetically sealed off from the turbines and external heat exchangers. For the GE BWR designs, the steam produced is then routed to the suppression pools, where the cooler water in the pool condenses the steam and keeps the internal pressure of the containment structure from growing too high. Further, in a plant that has backup power, the suppression pool water is flooded at a great rate into the reactor pressure vessel. This then generates steam, which is then further condensed by the suppression pool, and the process repeats. The suppression pool is cooled by outside water sources, and more cold water can be brought to the pool if needed. This again requires pumps, valves, and outside energy.

The pressure buildup here is almost assuredly inside the reactor container. The fire trucks I assume they use to pump this water likely cannot supply as strong an overpressure as the cooling system pumps, to combat the internal steam pressure. You would then enter a cycle of vent, fill, vent, fill. If you do this well, only a minor amount of radioactive gasses, coupled with short live nitrogen-16 and hydrogen isotopes actually escape to the environment. Vent/fill/vent/fill is what they want to do in Japan till the fuel cools.

The spent fuel pools also have substanstial thermal mass, but they need to be kept filled, so they must keep adding water to these pools to keep the SNF rods cool.

Hydrogen: Where did the hydrogen that exploded come from? Was it something the cooling water reacted with? Apparently these explosions took place outside the containment vessels.

Hydrogen comes from several locations in a plant. There's hydrogen in the turbine "halls" but they aren't the concern here. The hydrogen they have seen is most likely from water that, at high enough temperatures, reacts with the fuel rod cladding and disassociates (splits). The cladding becomes an oxide (gains oxygen) and the hydrogen becomes a gas. This is why we generally don't use water to fight metal fires. Usually that it is out of an overabundance of caution, as water is thermochemically stable up to pretty high temperatures (800+ C). In this case zirconium's reactivity helps pull the oxygen away from the water. Hydrogen may also arise from overheated spent fuel rods. Spent fuel, again, is the big problem here.

"Radiactive steam" - I thought water couldn't become radioactive? Does it carry contaminates? What other radioactive gases are of concern in terms of spreading contamination?

Some substances are "activated" by exposure to alpha or beta radiation, and some aren't. Hydrogen in steam can become radioactive, creating tritium, steam can also convect other radioactive substances into the air. The latter is more likely what is occurring.
 
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Re: Attempting to bring clarity to the nuclear problems facing Japan

Hello Phil,
As said, thanks, and we were waiting patiently.

Regarding #6. I too am puzzled by this choice, after what I have read.
Not only in regards to it, but also when we hear how serious the Japanese take their nuclear safety.
We of course hear a lot about how Japan is the only country to have the bomb dropped on it.

Can this be regarded as anything but corner cutting in the sake of maximum profit?

Its hard to speak with any authority on a reactor that is nearly a decade older than I am, but I suspect that, rather than profit mongering, it was excessive confidence in the quality of the design at the time of construction.


And #8. It seems that their own government is also a bit frustrated with Tepco, and the information stream they are getting.

And I just read that the power plant was originally scheduled to go off line last month, and then got a ten year extension. FWIW.

Regards, Jack

It should be mentioned that these plants functioned as designed until the tsunami wiped out their auxilliary power, and they survive an earthquake at least 10x (richter is logarithmic) beyond their design basis. GE and the regulators fault here was in underestimating the design requirements, rather than designing a bad product. The Russian RBMK, by comparison, is a fundamentally bad design.
 
Re: Attempting to bring clarity to the nuclear problems facing Japan

Hey Phil, Thanks for sharing your knowledge about nuclear reactor designs. Being curious from reading your post, I see on Wikipedia that the new reactors 3 and 4 at Plant Vogtle will indeed be the Westinghouse AP 1000s. But what about the existing 1 & 2 reactors, which are mentioned briefly as Westinghouse PWRs (pressurized water reactor). Would you please explain the differences between these two designs? And what is your opinion on the safety of the PWR?
Cheers, John

John,

Here in Georgia, at the Hatch plant, we have two boiling water reactors of the same type as in Japan (GE BWR with mark 1 containment). They are far enough inland that it would take a global cataclysm to flood their generators, but I'd still rather see them decomissioned. Certainly there will be upgrades to the auxiliary power and SNF cooling systems after this has run its course.

Vogtle is a comparatively new plant, the reactors are probably Westinghouse PWR-1000. It cost a fortune to build because of the NRC's ever improving saftey standards from the time of TMI to Chernobyl to the end of the 80s. Vogtle is about as modern as you can find. I also would expect the NRC to evaluate the height and protection of the supplemental power generation, and likely uprate its protection standard. This is something likely to be implemented nation-wide at all reactor facilities of all types.

Other than the GE Mark 1, I suspect all modern reactor designs would behave similarly in this situation, but that is only my personal speculation.
 
Re: Attempting to bring clarity to the nuclear problems facing Japan

While we probably need to spend more effort looking forward than back from here, one possible reason for choosing the GE design, may be a willingness to share technology. Hitachi has been involved in nuclear power for decades there, and is now the 80% of an 80/20 partnership with GE. For any paying attention, the nuclear development in India since the milestone agreement with them a few years ago has slowed dramatically as they haggle over liability issues. The nuclear industry prefers to avoid liability as much as possible (perhaps why GE is only 20% partner these days) and governments are often willing to get into the designs, up to their necks, by certifying and approving them. India has it's own history wrt liability and disasters associated with large foreign companies so their posture is understandable.

As so often I learn from your posts on nuclear energy subjects (and others), and you have hit the important bases IMO. It's a shame that the news organizations don't focus a larger fraction of their audience's rapt attention informing them thoroughly instead of scaring up ratings. The current headlines this morning are saying "out of control". Perhaps literally true but that doesn't mean run for the hills. This media coverage is such that there are shortages of iodine pills because americans are buying them made fearful by reportage.

I guess before you can inform, you first must understand, so thanks again for sharing.

JR
 
Re: Attempting to bring clarity to the nuclear problems facing Japan

Phil - an excellent write up which deserves far wider distribution than this little corner of the internet, especially given some of the alarmist nonsense being published in the mainstream media. (The headline of one of my local papers yesterday read "Third Nuke Blast Sparks Panic")

One thing I'm struggling to get my head round is why it isn't possible to have diesel engines that can survive immersion. If they have been physically destroyed or carried away by the wave, then that's one thing. But if they are still physically intact, just swamped, that's surely something that can be worked around?

I know that diesel-electric submarines have diesel engines which presumably survive prolonged immersion, then run again when the sub resurfaces. Adopting similar technology might enable the pumps to survive the wave or storm surge?
 
Re: Attempting to bring clarity to the nuclear problems facing Japan

Hello,

I believe that there's more to the story than the Diesel Engines were swamped. I'm guessing that damage to the support equipment to and from these Engines were/are the problem. According to the initial News reports, the Earth had shifted up to 1 meter in some places. Piping, plumbing, Evac Pumps, Conduit, support bridging, all could have been shifted, breaking the connections to the make-up water, the Diesel fuel for the Engines, Electrical and Electronic control lines, check valves, flange connections, etc...

The area directly above one of the reactor's containment vessel was used to store spent rods. One of the earliest explosions sent these rods, hundreds (if not thousands) of meters into the sky.

The proper information regarding these system malfunctions and Dangers have not been faithfully reported to the civilians. They have not been eager to supply the citizens with Iodine pills, although, some have been receiving the pills it is sparingly.

Many Countries have been sending their "experts" to aid the Japanese....but, Politics or lack of, have been gumming up the works. The US Government has been "closed-mouthed" about the situation, and the Military has maintained that it's not a major problem...yet. Some News sources have been reporting that these "Reactors are in the process of complete Meltdowns".

I've also heard reports of hundreds already dying of Radiation Poisoning.

I wish the Japanese, the best of luck.

Hammer
 
Re: Attempting to bring clarity to the nuclear problems facing Japan

The last report I heard was that they were close to getting electricity run to one (?) damaged nuke plants that should help them keep water on the hot goodies, while I suspect it is too far gone to restart normal control systems even when power is restored. I believe the tsunami, not earthquake did the serious mechanical damage to plant support infrastructure, but since then salt water and distortions to overheated exposed fuel rods have screwed the pooch on restoring normal control.

I didn't hear the report about flying fuel rods, that sounds far more serious than low level short lived radiation vented with steam.

I also haven't heard about "hundred's already dying of radiation". There were reports of pulling back some power plant emergency workers due to their accumulated exposure being higher than acceptable workplace standards (something like a years worth in a couple days). Also nearby residents have been advised to stay indoors because of the vented low level products.

I am surprised these more serious reports haven't made it to the mainstream press? it seems to me they are already trying to make it sound as scary as possible. I can't imagine them passing up this juicy stuff.

I have tried to confirm those reports, but despite a number of similar sounding headlines in google, i didn't have any luck. Of course that doesn't mean it isn't so... time will reveal all... or at least more than we know now.

JR
 
Re: Attempting to bring clarity to the nuclear problems facing Japan

There has been some pretty thoughtful analysis over at The Register.

A key quote from the linked article: "One of the most serious health results of Fukushima is likely to be people all around the world making themselves ill by taking iodide pills unnecessarily."