Booking Agents... (Kinda Rant)

Adam Whetham

Adam Whetham

Sophomore
Jan 11, 2011
140
0
0
Grand Forks, ND
My band does not use a booking agent, Before I joined they had used one and it ended up just getting them horrible gigs and lower pay as they took a cut out.

Now suddenly my band becomes more popular than before and suddenly we have booking agents calling us to "Help get booked at these bars that want us"

Now excuse me, by why would I not just talk to whoever books at the bar? If your the "agent" for the bar then great this is what we charge, let us know what dates your looking at. Why are you suddenly telling me that for that price such a dollar amount is going to be their cut... no you ADD to our requirement, not take from it. (I'm wondering if this is standard practice in other place or if we just have downright dirty booking agents around here)

The funny thing is one of these guys is the same one they used 5 years ago that didn't get them any shows, and is now trying to "Help them" again.

The only thing we've found as of late is one of them has agreements with certain bars that they'll only book "His" entertainment. Now that that bar wants us, he wants us to join his scam? He isn't understanding that we're not interested in his scam, but we're interested in playing at said place.

Some people.
 
Re: Booking Agents... (Kinda Rant)

If a booking agent insists on a cut, then he had better be able to get a guarenteed minimun to justify that cut.

Fortunately for me, one act I am working with decided a dedicated sound tech was a better investment than a booking agent.
 
Re: Booking Agents... (Kinda Rant)

Indy has a few. And they are FIERCELY competitive. I've lived longer than most of them. What they do, and what I can do are identical. They charge 12 to 20 percent to make the calls. Think about that. This business is now, and always has been, a business of relationships. I treat people much more professionally than some of these folks. I have seen them take, and do little in return, all in the name of bringing "better quality" entertainment to the local scene. It is the state of the local scene, at least the more "preferred" establishments. Interesting you mention the attention you're attracting now. It is because you will make money. These people want a cut. I assure you, take time to frequent an establishment. Buy their food, Drink their beer. Make friends. Be loyal. Present a professional presence and quality product. There are no rules set in stone. Let noone tell you differently. At least in the local scene. When you show you can entertain a crowd and keep the cash registers ringing and the babes dancing, you'll attract the attention of the club owners also. And it is those business people that have the say. Not the agents.
 
Re: Booking Agents... (Kinda Rant)

Hello:
I used to gig in a band in the 80's/90's that was lead by the female vocalist. She was convinced that having a booking agent was "big time". Aside for a wedding or two all we got from the agent was low paying bar gigs over five years.
Agents only like bands that can make them $... Once your band stops making $ for the agent you are out...no matter how much you made for the agent in the past. There is very little loyalty..

When I switched over to classical music for weddings and my ensemble became the first call in my area, the local wedding agents contacted me to see if they could book us. My reply "we're already booked solid...what more can you do for us..?
That was 15 years ago and we still gig regularly (with no agent involved). One of my ensemble's sellling points is that there is no markup/agency fee and the clients deal directly with me with no "go-between".

Agents at the local level are not "bigtime". If your band is good and you can draw a crowd you are best to approach a club owner and negotiate for yourself. If the clubowner refers you to an agent that books the room you should approach him your group's info including your price. If the agent says that he usually get a fee for booking the room it's simple: your price + his fee, not your price minus his fee.
Do not sell yourself short.
Mike M
 
Re: Booking Agents... (Kinda Rant)

If you have the time and ability to book enough jobs to keep yourself busy, then a booking agent makes no sense. However, if you realize that you don't have the time or connections to fill your calendar, finding a good booking agent can really help. Yes, agents will take a cut, and should be expected to do so. The hard thing is finding a GOOD agent. There are so many out there that just try and fill the calendar. They don't care about filling YOUR calendar specifically. They may have 100 bands that they represent, and for any customer that comes along select a band to fill the slot. These agents really aren't doing much for you, as they are not promoting you, they are promoting themselves.

When you find a good agent that will get out and promote YOU, that's when they are worth 20% of the cut.
 
Re: Booking Agents... (Kinda Rant)

Brian jojade said:
If you have the time and ability to book enough jobs to keep yourself busy, then a booking agent makes no sense. However, if you realize that you don't have the time or connections to fill your calendar, finding a good booking agent can really help. Yes, agents will take a cut, and should be expected to do so. The hard thing is finding a GOOD agent. There are so many out there that just try and fill the calendar. They don't care about filling YOUR calendar specifically. They may have 100 bands that they represent, and for any customer that comes along select a band to fill the slot. These agents really aren't doing much for you, as they are not promoting you, they are promoting themselves.

When you find a good agent that will get out and promote YOU, that's when they are worth 20% of the cut.
Click to expand...

Having worked for an agency "back in hair-band 80's" I can tell you that most agents at this level work for the venue, but take their fee from the act.

Consider what would happen if Realtors worked that way... when you list your home, you sign a contract with the real estate agent that, in theory, means he/she represents YOUR interests, exclusively. For an Realtor to do anything (besides required property disclosures) that benefits the buyer would be a breach of contract and several other things (fraud included).

At the club level, that's what happens. Been there, done that, burned the shirt. The band pays the commission but the agent works for the bar. Should the band have any problems whatsoever and have the balls to complain, they will be dropped and blacklisted with every agency within a significant territory.

For other types of gigs/venues/bands things can be done right, but I don't recommend agents to bar bands.

Have fun, don't get screwed (and that has nothing to do with luck).

Tim Mc
 
Re: Booking Agents... (Kinda Rant)

Brian jojade said:
When you find a good agent that will get out and promote YOU, that's when they are worth 20% of the cut.
Click to expand...

When my classical group started out we did a few gigs through agents....to contract us I had the agents sign our Musician's Union Contract with deposit (I could tell that they didn't like it..) and they booked us for OUR fee. I didn't care what they charged "ontop" as long as we got our fee (deposit at contract signing with the balance due two weeks prior to the event). These were high end Newport weddings but the concept is the same. There were a few gigs that I am sure that the agent got $1000.00+ as a booking fee. I was ok with that as long as we got our fee....why not....the agent had the connections.

Do not give an agent a piece of YOUR cut, let them add their cut (fee) to the price of YOUR group.
Don't sell yourself short.
Mike M
 
Re: Booking Agents... (Kinda Rant)

Tim McCulloch said:
Having worked for an agency "back in hair-band 80's" I can tell you that most agents at this level work for the venue, but take their fee from the act.

Consider what would happen if Realtors worked that way... when you list your home, you sign a contract with the real estate agent that, in theory, means he/she represents YOUR interests, exclusively. For an Realtor to do anything (besides required property disclosures) that benefits the buyer would be a breach of contract and several other things (fraud included).

At the club level, that's what happens. Been there, done that, burned the shirt. The band pays the commission but the agent works for the bar. Should the band have any problems whatsoever and have the balls to complain, they will be dropped and blacklisted with every agency within a significant territory.

For other types of gigs/venues/bands things can be done right, but I don't recommend agents to bar bands.

Have fun, don't get screwed (and that has nothing to do with luck).

Tim Mc
Click to expand...

Legally and contractually all Realtors work for the seller. While your Realtor may have your best interest at heart, they are legally bound to the seller unless you enter into a buyers agent agreement.
Booking agents work for their own self interest.

Winston
 
Re: Booking Agents... (Kinda Rant)

Winston, that's my point... that the agent works for the seller, whether one is selling real property or a musical performance.

Booking agents at the bar/club level actually represent the interests of the venue, but usually take their commission fee from the entertainers.
 
Re: Booking Agents... (Kinda Rant)

It is my understanding (I am a former executive board member of my local AFM) that an agent is supposed to find gigs for a band. The venue pays the band and then the band pays the agency (finders) fee to the agent.

In my area things are backwards... In most cases the band plays a gig, the club pays the agent, the agent takes his cut, and then the agent pays the band.

Mike Monte
 
Re: Booking Agents... (Kinda Rant)

I do quite a bit of band booking on the side. I always try to establish with a act up front where they want to be price wise and I also establish a certain quality overall for the acts I do represent. I also generally dont book bars, there simply isnt any money in it. Unless a band is exclusive, I work for the client to find the right act. Some clients are exclusive some are not. Generally I try to raise the bar, as far as expectations of the band and the client. Some times a gig is what it is and the client is willing to pay what they want to pay, bands can always say no to a gig.

If I am exlusive with a venue I know what they are willing to pay. If a band really draws or can really sell the booze then they will pay more but they want to see a proven track record. A good agent uses his owm reputation to sell a new band based on the quality of the overall roster. I do expect if I am going to find you several shows a decent price I can step on and make my 15%. I have gotten bands good enough pricing that they have even sent me a little extra for the effort.
 
Re: Booking Agents... (Kinda Rant)

I book a lot with an agent. Its mostly private parties, things I would otherwise not have had, so its worth it.

Don't trick yourselves into thinking that you aren't paying the agent. The buyer only cares how much its going to cost him to get the band. He doesn't care who gets what. So even if the agent takes your asking price, adds 20% on top and then charges that to the buyer, you still paid it in lost potential income. Someone would have paid more to have the band.

Its not different than when people assume their employer is paying 1/2 of their social security tax. Businessmen factor that in as a cost to hiring, and they take that out of what they otherwise could have offered.
 
Last edited:
Re: Booking Agents... (Kinda Rant)

Hello Adam,
First off, there has already been a lot of prodding on this new forum in the area of language and its proper use here.
As such I must point out the redundancy of your title. The first part "Booking Agents", pretty much stands on its own.
Everything after that would out of necessity be a rant. (Do I need to add an emoticonny doo dah?)

So, as mentioned, when a price is quoted to an agent, it is your fee + his.
The good part is that if he wants more money, he needs to get you more money.

Really you need to decide what kind of gigs you want. In local bars he offers you no service.
Unless he has the exclusive on the club. Then, if they pay your fee and his, no harm no foul.

But if you want to get better paying gigs this is where he can help you.
You can not be expected to have contact with every convention that comes to town, or every wedding that is planned.
But your agent, if he is a good one, can. Then it is his job to determine if you are a good fit monetarily, musically, and availability.

But you need to decide if you want to be a bar band, do corporate work, or both.
No derision on being a bar band. It is much more about you, and you get to decide your presentation.

Two stories,
1) Went to pick up a sound system from the "Killer Tomatoes". They looked quite down. What happened?
"Bill booked us as a country act." (Even from the name I can tell that is a bad match.)

2) There used to be an agent here who for decades booked the biggest country bar in town.
It took that long before the bands and the bar figured out that he was charging both of them the booking fee.
Double dipping.

Regards, Jack
 
Re: Booking Agents... (Kinda Rant)

Winston Gamble said:
Legally and contractually all Realtors work for the seller. While your Realtor may have your best interest at heart, they are legally bound to the seller unless you enter into a buyers agent agreement.
Booking agents work for their own self interest.

Winston
Click to expand...

This statement is NOT true. I have had my Real Estate License for 10 years and what you describe is not how it is any more. This was correct many, many years ago, not today.

An Agent of any sort is suppose to have a Fiduciary Duty to the customer. If a band hires a Booking Agent then that agent must work in the band's best interest or they could possibly be breaking the law depending on the laws of the particular state. In addition, it could possibly be illegal for an Agent to write a contract between the Band and the Venue/Buyer if they are not Attorneys, again depending upon the states laws. If the Agent is also being paid by the Venue then the Agent must disclose that. Unfortunately, unlike Real Estate, the bar music scene is not something that is regulated and it would be up to the customer to take legal action.
 
Top Bottom