bumping into the digital era!

I

i.d. sonnenfeld

Freshman
Jul 6, 2012
2
0
0
Stevens Point
Hey all! I've been reading the forums here for some time now & am finally making my first post! The amount of insight I've gleaned from everyone here is astonishing. I owe you all a great thanks - but that's for a different thread.

So... I'm looking at updating my audio desk inventory to the digital era! I'm currently running an Allen & Heath GL4000, a Crest X-Eight, and a Midas VeniceU & Allen & Heath MixWizard 16ch. (among other smaller "desks"). I'm looking at everything from the $3k - $10k range but I have to cap at $12k. If i can stay below $10k, that'd probably bode well for reporting my budget to my supervisor, but it's not a deal breaker to be above $10k.

The events I run span from small, local bands/singer songwriters, to national comedians, University Commencement ceremonies, to B & C list national acts. It's gotten to the point my current inventory is frowned upon when these larger acts come in & it's not worth the effort to travel across state to rent a desk for a 3 hour show. So I need something versatile to handle a variety of acts & still be suitable for larger acts when necessary.

I've been looking at the Midas Pro1 (as a starting point - eventually upgrading, with a new budget, to a Pro2 or Pro2C), the Midas M32 (not yet released), the Soundcraft Si Performer 3, and a few others. From what I've read, the Midas Pro series isn't very rider friendly; the Performer has DMX control which i won't utilize so I'm unsure of paying for a utility I won't utilize; and Yamaha & PreSonus are a brain buster trying to navigate.

Here's the rub: I oversee a staff of college students who aren't necessarily going on to pro-audio as a profession. Now, that doesn't mean they're not capable, only that their primary focus is classwork. Event production & learning new gear comes second, third, maybe even fourth on their priority list. So, above all - this digital desk should be simplistic in its design & navigation.

Does this desk even exist? What are some recommendations?

I look forward to joining the community & the conversation. Thanks in advance everyone!
 
Re: bumping into the digital era!

For corp work I would look at the new (shipping next month?) Yamaha QL-1. The Dugan auto mixer included and Dante networking make it attractive.
I don't recall if you said how many inputs or faders you need. For a larger surface and more inputs consider the QL-5. For less money the A&H GLD-80 can be had for around the $10k mark.


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Re: bumping into the digital era!

I/my staff try to work with 32ch. when we can. But that's analog, so when running multiple bands, the additional channels seem necessary since there's no saving "scenes" as it were. That said, I also haven't seen a rider with requesting less than 32ch, even if the band only uses 16ch.
 
Re: bumping into the digital era!

If you are trying to meet riders, then you need to buy what's on the riders, but that's not going to happen for $12K or less.

If you have about 6 months, you can read the giant X32 thread on this forum. The general consensus is that it doesn't suck. If your budget is $3K, that's worth a look, as is the A&H Qu-24.

If your budget is $10K, I think there's a lot to like with the GLD system. I own a GLD system, and love it. It's physically very compact, reasonably easy to operate, and includes a digital snake option. It's in the same general range of capabilities as the QL-series, but is significantly less expensive if the digital snake is of value to you.

All digital mixers have a learning curve, and anyone can get confused on them - just as anyone can get confused on an analog system. In my experience, most of the confusion comes in the initial setup of the desk. Once you have decided on a scheme for inputs, outputs, processing, then operating the board is pretty trivial. Once that's done, virtually all boards are the same - select what you want to adjust, turn the appropriate knob.
 
Re: bumping into the digital era!

I have found that you are never going to find one console that fits every rider... For a long time you could probably get away with an M7 for 3 out of 4, and now it seems that a SC48 has kind of taken its place, that being said both are out of your budget, and neither will probably be the most rider friendly boards 2 years from now. I Like the Pro2 but I don't know if it is going to catch on the same way...

It sounds like you have a lot of systems going out at once. I would suggest that you look into a few boards in the Behringer X32 line. IMO they are pretty easy to use and in your budget. You could get a full size and probably a couple of compacts and start getting your whole crew trained all at once. you can probably recoup some of your costs by selling off some of your analog boards and processing. Then when the M32 comes out if you think that it makes sense for you, everyone will already know how to use it since it is essentially the same console with some non user interface related upgrades.

The X32 is generally well received and I have even worked with a bunch of B-C level national acts that said they have run into them on tour and gotten through the gigs quite nicely on them. I know many people are still afraid of the "B" word, but my hats off to them, I am a proud owner of 3 x32s and I have plans on 2 more in the next few months.
 
Re: bumping into the digital era!

As a Pro1 owner,I can highly recommend it for alot of reasons.But in your situation where you are dealing with a number of different acts,any of the Pro series takes time to program.So just beware that you will have to program it for every different show you do.This includes assigning channels to inputs and outputs,turning on auxes,naming channels,auxes,pop groups etc. Maybe all or most digital mixers are the same,I don't know.Just be aware that analogue is alot easier when it comes to putting together mixes for a wide array of acts. Since you're dealing with a bunch of kids who are not going into pro audio,you want something that is easy to use and i'm not sure that exists in digital right now.The new QSC Touchmix is suppose to have presets,but it's not on the market yet so how it sounds or works is to be determined.
 
Re: bumping into the digital era!

Randy Gartner said:
As a Pro1 owner,I can highly recommend it for alot of reasons.But in your situation where you are dealing with a number of different acts,any of the Pro series takes time to program.So just beware that you will have to program it for every different show you do.This includes assigning channels to inputs and outputs,turning on auxes,naming channels,auxes,pop groups etc. Maybe all or most digital mixers are the same,I don't know.Just be aware that analogue is alot easier when it comes to putting together mixes for a wide array of acts. Since you're dealing with a bunch of kids who are not going into pro audio,you want something that is easy to use and i'm not sure that exists in digital right now.The new QSC Touchmix is suppose to have presets,but it's not on the market yet so how it sounds or works is to be determined.
Click to expand...

Do you use Mueller Speaker Service?
 
Re: bumping into the digital era!

The new Yamaha QL looks interesting. And in one of its forms should keep you in the ballpark.

I'd buy 2 M32's if I were in your shoes.
 
Re: bumping into the digital era!

The Soundcraft Si Expression 3 32ch would be similiar to the Performer minus a few features and is half the price! You could get three in your budget!
 
Re: bumping into the digital era!

Randy Gartner said:
As a Pro1 owner,I can highly recommend it for alot of reasons.But in your situation where you are dealing with a number of different acts,any of the Pro series takes time to program.So just beware that you will have to program it for every different show you do.This includes assigning channels to inputs and outputs,turning on auxes,naming channels,auxes,pop groups etc. Maybe all or most digital mixers are the same,I don't know.Just be aware that analogue is alot easier when it comes to putting together mixes for a wide array of acts. Since you're dealing with a bunch of kids who are not going into pro audio,you want something that is easy to use and i'm not sure that exists in digital right now.The new QSC Touchmix is suppose to have presets,but it's not on the market yet so how it sounds or works is to be determined.
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I would say this is perhaps a generational thing. I will race my GLD against any analog mixer in any test you want. I can set monitors faster using sends on faders, I can recall a scene and go get lunch in the time it takes to reset 400 knobs on a large frame analog board. I can copy a channel EQ from one mic to several faster than resetting the knobs. I can patch dynamics processors faster, etc. Yes there is one-time setup to figure out how you want to initially set the board up (as there is with an analog system), but once you have busses and routing configured, digital wins.

I'm not sure why you would have to program this differently for every show - at least any more than you would make changes on an analog system.

I also think the visual feedback that digital provides is welcomed by younger operators.
 
Re: bumping into the digital era!

i.d. sonnenfeld said:
Hey all! I've been reading the forums here for some time now & am finally making my first post! The amount of insight I've gleaned from everyone here is astonishing. I owe you all a great thanks - but that's for a different thread.

So... I'm looking at updating my audio desk inventory to the digital era! I'm currently running an Allen & Heath GL4000, a Crest X-Eight, and a Midas VeniceU & Allen & Heath MixWizard 16ch. (among other smaller "desks"). I'm looking at everything from the $3k - $10k range but I have to cap at $12k. If i can stay below $10k, that'd probably bode well for reporting my budget to my supervisor, but it's not a deal breaker to be above $10k.

The events I run span from small, local bands/singer songwriters, to national comedians, University Commencement ceremonies, to B & C list national acts. It's gotten to the point my current inventory is frowned upon when these larger acts come in & it's not worth the effort to travel across state to rent a desk for a 3 hour show. So I need something versatile to handle a variety of acts & still be suitable for larger acts when necessary.

I've been looking at the Midas Pro1 (as a starting point - eventually upgrading, with a new budget, to a Pro2 or Pro2C), the Midas M32 (not yet released), the Soundcraft Si Performer 3, and a few others. From what I've read, the Midas Pro series isn't very rider friendly; the Performer has DMX control which i won't utilize so I'm unsure of paying for a utility I won't utilize; and Yamaha & PreSonus are a brain buster trying to navigate.

Here's the rub: I oversee a staff of college students who aren't necessarily going on to pro-audio as a profession. Now, that doesn't mean they're not capable, only that their primary focus is classwork. Event production & learning new gear comes second, third, maybe even fourth on their priority list. So, above all - this digital desk should be simplistic in its design & navigation.

Does this desk even exist? What are some recommendations?

I look forward to joining the community & the conversation. Thanks in advance everyone!
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At 3K - 12K you’re not really going to buy a rider desk, however there are some great options around this price.

Allen & Heath GLD & Qu24, Midas Pro 1, PRO2c, Midas M32, Sound Craft Si, and the new Yamaha QL5 … for what they cost you won’t go wrong.

The easiest to use is the Allen Heath Qu24, the Desk with the most rider acceptance in this group is the Pro2C. We have a Pro2 and the rider acceptance has increased significantly in the last 6 months… but I’m in Australia; I believe it’s even better in Europe. I expect the Yamaha QL5 will in time get some traction especially in the US which seems to love Yamaha.

The advantage with desks like the GLD and Pro2 & 2C is the cat 5 multi-core is included in the price. Once you have had a cat 5 multicore you will not want to use anything else. The multicore may offset the extra price., but if its for a fixed installation its probably of no value.
 
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Re: bumping into the digital era!

In my experience with the X32 in the last year, I never thought I would be renting my console due to bands requesting it but I have found thats the case. I equate it to the Pro Tools/Digidesign theory. Maybe they are using the X32 in rehearsal and if the opportunity presents itself, it is familiar territory. If I, and I am in the situation of meeting riders for B level acts and you wanted to go down the digi desk road in that price range, you might want to consider the M32 as it has the Midas branding which relieves some engineers and it carries the familiarity of the feature set of the X32. This is as long as the M32 is rock solid and loads X32 scenes.
 
Re: bumping into the digital era!

"The easiest to use is the Allen Heath Qu24"

I don't know about that. Have you used the Si? I have only seen the Qu24 at NAMM, but the Si is a very easy board to get up and runninn on.
 
Re: bumping into the digital era!

Chuck Simon said:
"The easiest to use is the Allen Heath Qu24"

I don't know about that. Have you used the Si? I have only seen the Qu24 at NAMM, but the Si is a very easy board to get up and runninn on.
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I agree, the Si is very easy to use. I would put the Qu slightly ahead, but I'm sure everyone's mileage will be slightly different.
 
Re: bumping into the digital era!

TJ Cornish said:
I'm not sure why you would have to program this differently for every show - at least any more than you would make changes on an analog system.

I also think the visual feedback that digital provides is welcomed by younger operators.
Click to expand...

What I have done with my GLD is set up one layer with all the drum channels I might have plus a couple of bass channels and a few spares (other percussion ?). Another layer has keys, gtrs, horns & vocals.

For a given show, I set the color of the channels I am not using to black and maybe mute them. I then save it as a scene named for the band or event. I can take this to start and simply change the colors of the scribble strips to show what I am using.



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