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The Basement
Copyright, Patent, General Intellectual Property Discussion (Branch from M32 Thread)
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<blockquote data-quote="John Roberts" data-source="post: 115271" data-attributes="member: 126"><p>Re: New Midas M32 Console</p><p></p><p></p><p>Since this veer doesn't seem to be going away I'd like to amplify or expand upon a few points. (again with apologies for those disinterested in IP.)</p><p></p><p>Indeed... the technology is deemed "public domain" or free to use. </p><p></p><p>Yes, the classic example of a design patent is the coke bottle. An iconic and easily recognizable shape, that they protect vigorously. In the MI business it is generally not worthwhile to file design patents on the majority of products that change often and form often follows function. An exception could be guitars, that probably carry design patents on iconic visual features like headstock , tailpieces, etc. Some old classic designs are not protected. </p><p></p><p>A utility patent is more about how something works and "novelty" or newness is one of the key requirements, besides being new or different, it also must do something useful and not be obvious to someone skilled in the art. This is a gross simplification but the basis. Inventors who secure patent protection for an invention, publish or teach "how" they accomplished their invention in exchange for protected use for a finite time period. After that period of protection expires this protected technology becomes public domain for all to use. (A few of my patents are that old). </p><p></p><p>indeed</p><p></p><p>Not a comment about this particular product but a trend that I noticed over the last few decades in response to blatant copying, manufacturers began filing for copyright protection on PCB layouts and even owners manuals. The copyright law was not intended to protect this kind of IP but manufacturers found themselves competing with literal copies of PCB layouts and even owner's manual text. It seems software could be copyrighted but code must be customized for the processor used and some processors allow the code to be locked so it is harder to read and copy. There are publicly reported (and unreported) cases of such literal copying that I won't rehash here. </p><p></p><p>Strat(ocaster)? Numerous, and apparently not protected, from back in a kinder gentler time when copies were looked down upon as inferior. We live in a new time with generations who grew up copying music and whatever for free off the WWW. </p><p></p><p>I don't know that the law encourages copying per se, it does not prevent it in most cases. The quid pro quo surrounding utility patents is to expand public knowledge with the publication of an invention, so everyone can learn from the documented innovation and expand upon that. The alternative is that technology is kept completely secret (aka trade secrets), and the growth of public knowledge is slowed down and in extreme cases lost. It is important to remember that IP stands for "intellectual property". Property that posses the characteristics of having both value and ownership, just like real property. There is a continuum of IP ranging from the obvious and legally protected patents and copyrights, to less tangible stuff like ergonomics and human factors engineering, that can make the difference between something that looks like a guitar, and something that is a joy to play and makes music. Some nuts and bolts old-shool products possess years or decades of embedded IP by companies that pioneered the products, and learned all the stuff that didn't work, perhaps by doing it wrong 20 years ago. This vague proprietary IP is not protected but surely has value. IP can even extend to branding where iconic advertising and good will surrounding a brand holds value. Depending on whether you are the winner or loser in "legally" poaching such proprietary IP, it is either clever business, or sleazy. Opinions vary. Many consumers benefit from lower cost knock-offs, ultimately we can all lose if innovation suffers. </p><p></p><p>I guess there could be a debate about the ethics of copying "other people's" ideas. We all benefit when wisdom and knowledge is shared, while people need to receive fair compensation for their work effort or what is the point of them creating more? It is generally a bad business model to copy someone who did something first, unless you have some other competitive advantage to make your version more attractive to buyers. Doing the same thing for significantly less money is one such merchantable model available to large companies with manufacturing scale and resources. Yes this is legal, and arguably provides customers a lower cost option. A business model based on this alone will eventually run out of innovative products to copy as the companies doing the innovation lose profits and fade away. At some point this is not increasing competition but damping it and the serial copier must come up with their own new ideas. Large companies can stagnate and will often buy smaller more innovative companies to feed internal new product generation. Note: some corporate acquisitions are just for the technology, some to open access to new markets. The best provide both. </p><p></p><p>Indeed... I spent 15 years designing with a sharp pencil. It is much harder to design a VW than a Ferrari. </p><p></p><p>I have heaped praise on the X-32 numerous times and it is a notable achievement. Another unobvious feat of value engineering IMO is the motor-fader. Perhaps underestimated for degree of difficulty by people not familiar with such things. So congratulations once again. </p><p></p><p></p><p>Time will tell wether competition is increased or decreased by modern market trends. It is what it is. I am glad I am no longer working in those particular trenches. There are still new technologies and new things for me to pursue. </p><p></p><p>JR</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="John Roberts, post: 115271, member: 126"] Re: New Midas M32 Console Since this veer doesn't seem to be going away I'd like to amplify or expand upon a few points. (again with apologies for those disinterested in IP.) Indeed... the technology is deemed "public domain" or free to use. Yes, the classic example of a design patent is the coke bottle. An iconic and easily recognizable shape, that they protect vigorously. In the MI business it is generally not worthwhile to file design patents on the majority of products that change often and form often follows function. An exception could be guitars, that probably carry design patents on iconic visual features like headstock , tailpieces, etc. Some old classic designs are not protected. A utility patent is more about how something works and "novelty" or newness is one of the key requirements, besides being new or different, it also must do something useful and not be obvious to someone skilled in the art. This is a gross simplification but the basis. Inventors who secure patent protection for an invention, publish or teach "how" they accomplished their invention in exchange for protected use for a finite time period. After that period of protection expires this protected technology becomes public domain for all to use. (A few of my patents are that old). indeed Not a comment about this particular product but a trend that I noticed over the last few decades in response to blatant copying, manufacturers began filing for copyright protection on PCB layouts and even owners manuals. The copyright law was not intended to protect this kind of IP but manufacturers found themselves competing with literal copies of PCB layouts and even owner's manual text. It seems software could be copyrighted but code must be customized for the processor used and some processors allow the code to be locked so it is harder to read and copy. There are publicly reported (and unreported) cases of such literal copying that I won't rehash here. Strat(ocaster)? Numerous, and apparently not protected, from back in a kinder gentler time when copies were looked down upon as inferior. We live in a new time with generations who grew up copying music and whatever for free off the WWW. I don't know that the law encourages copying per se, it does not prevent it in most cases. The quid pro quo surrounding utility patents is to expand public knowledge with the publication of an invention, so everyone can learn from the documented innovation and expand upon that. The alternative is that technology is kept completely secret (aka trade secrets), and the growth of public knowledge is slowed down and in extreme cases lost. It is important to remember that IP stands for "intellectual property". Property that posses the characteristics of having both value and ownership, just like real property. There is a continuum of IP ranging from the obvious and legally protected patents and copyrights, to less tangible stuff like ergonomics and human factors engineering, that can make the difference between something that looks like a guitar, and something that is a joy to play and makes music. Some nuts and bolts old-shool products possess years or decades of embedded IP by companies that pioneered the products, and learned all the stuff that didn't work, perhaps by doing it wrong 20 years ago. This vague proprietary IP is not protected but surely has value. IP can even extend to branding where iconic advertising and good will surrounding a brand holds value. Depending on whether you are the winner or loser in "legally" poaching such proprietary IP, it is either clever business, or sleazy. Opinions vary. Many consumers benefit from lower cost knock-offs, ultimately we can all lose if innovation suffers. I guess there could be a debate about the ethics of copying "other people's" ideas. We all benefit when wisdom and knowledge is shared, while people need to receive fair compensation for their work effort or what is the point of them creating more? It is generally a bad business model to copy someone who did something first, unless you have some other competitive advantage to make your version more attractive to buyers. Doing the same thing for significantly less money is one such merchantable model available to large companies with manufacturing scale and resources. Yes this is legal, and arguably provides customers a lower cost option. A business model based on this alone will eventually run out of innovative products to copy as the companies doing the innovation lose profits and fade away. At some point this is not increasing competition but damping it and the serial copier must come up with their own new ideas. Large companies can stagnate and will often buy smaller more innovative companies to feed internal new product generation. Note: some corporate acquisitions are just for the technology, some to open access to new markets. The best provide both. Indeed... I spent 15 years designing with a sharp pencil. It is much harder to design a VW than a Ferrari. I have heaped praise on the X-32 numerous times and it is a notable achievement. Another unobvious feat of value engineering IMO is the motor-fader. Perhaps underestimated for degree of difficulty by people not familiar with such things. So congratulations once again. Time will tell wether competition is increased or decreased by modern market trends. It is what it is. I am glad I am no longer working in those particular trenches. There are still new technologies and new things for me to pursue. JR [/QUOTE]
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