Damn anklebitters

S

Steve Ferreira

Sophomore
Jan 12, 2011
189
0
16
Toronto, Canada
I had the opportunity to bid on a 3 day outdoor festival. Client wanted an SL100, gennie, sound for various performers and bands, and lighting. Since I don't own enough gear for this I got all my quotes from people I normally deal with, since I get a deal. I came in at what I thought was a fair price for them and the gear that they were gonna get. We are talking 5-6 mixes, full mic kit, Vertec 4888s, Midas, outborad, front lighting, Mac 250s etc... I was making some money on this, even though I had a bunch of expenses.
Today the client calls me and says that they got a quote from somebody else and that I will not be doing the event. I asked how come, the answer came as no surprise....MONEY.... The other supplier came in at $1500 cheaper AND is gonna throw in a video wall. I know what my expenses where and this guy is gonna make maybe $200 if he is lucky. I know this other supplier long enough to know that he did this on purpose just so I wouldn't get the gig, it wouldn't be the first time this happens.

He tried doing the same thing to me on another event that happens 2 weeks after this one, a 4 day outdoor. His quote for this event was $2000 cheaper. Thankfully my client for 12 years believes in me and my experience to tell him "Thanks, but no Thanks".
This guy has a reputation of lowballing everybody and then ruining the events. It baffles me how he is still around.

Sorry for the rant..........
 
Re: Damn anklebitters

Welcome to the wonderful world of production... I had the same thing happen to me, but the margin was only $500 (him under me)!! The festival went with this guy only because he had been doing it for the last couple years. Guess what - the guy provides a drum kit and a couple of amps - the rest of the kit he rents !! GRRRR
Stage / PA / Lighting / Video / Vendor power.... The only thing I didn't own was a stage. I wonder what would happen if any of those items fail on-site... on a sunday....
 
Re: Damn anklebitters

I don't know what kind of events you usually do but I do a lot of government work. I get some and lose some. Everyone one of them goes out to bid. The lowest bidder is often the bid winner but not always. Since I get a lot of these events, does that make me an ankle biter? NO! I means that I am efficient at doing those types of events and I am able to be profitable at a price that works for the event organisers.

I ahve lost some events to ankle biters too. One of them used to hang out ont the old LAB and I even gave him some advice. He took the advice, bid against me and got the events. Some of his equipment started on fire on stage. I don't bid against him anymore, imagine that!

Bringing inadequate gear, not being insured, not maintaining your gear and then under bidding is what ankle biters do. Being smart and efficient and being able be profitable at a good price point does not make one an ankle biter. Not sure what you are really dealing with but typical ankle biters don't have video walls!
 
Re: Damn anklebitters

RYAN LOUDMUSIC JENKINS said:
Bringing inadequate gear, not being insured, not maintaining your gear and then under bidding is what ankle biters do. Being smart and efficient and being able be profitable at a good price point does not make one an ankle biter. Not sure what you are really dealing with but typical ankle biters don't have video walls!
Click to expand...

The insurance thing is kind of my trump card. I've managed to keep my rates affordable by being a one-man operation and not having much overhead. When an outfit goes looking for someone cheaper I simply furnish them with a copy of my liability policy and ask that they get one from the person(s) bidding against me. When they can't show insurance, I usually get the job.
 
Re: Damn anklebitters

RYAN LOUDMUSIC JENKINS said:
I don't know what kind of events you usually do but I do a lot of government work. I get some and lose some. Everyone one of them goes out to bid. The lowest bidder is often the bid winner but not always. Since I get a lot of these events, does that make me an ankle biter? NO! I means that I am efficient at doing those types of events and I am able to be profitable at a price that works for the event organisers.

I ahve lost some events to ankle biters too. One of them used to hang out ont the old LAB and I even gave him some advice. He took the advice, bid against me and got the events. Some of his equipment started on fire on stage. I don't bid against him anymore, imagine that!

Bringing inadequate gear, not being insured, not maintaining your gear and then under bidding is what ankle biters do. Being smart and efficient and being able be profitable at a good price point does not make one an ankle biter. Not sure what you are really dealing with but typical ankle biters don't have video walls!
Click to expand...

He has to rent the video wall, just like he has to rent the stage, gennie and some audio gear. He only has 8 KF730s and 6 SB1000s. The event will have about 3000 people infront of the rig. He doesn't have much lighting also.
He was the only provider in the community many years ago (like 22 years ago), and he built up a good reputation doing all the big events and all the big headliners. Recently he has been scrapping the barrel, executing poorly and literally screwing over clients. Now there are other providers who can do the events, and want to get paid what we feel is right for the services we provide. Here is an example. He bid on a show and got it. 2 days before the event he called the organizer and said he messed up on the quote and needed another $3000 or he wouldn't do the event. The client panicked and paid up.
I'm all about being able to bid on an event, even abit "cheaper" then the other guy, but be profitable. He is just bidding on events and breaking even or making $200 for a 3 day event.
 
Re: Damn anklebitters

I used to have a problem with another provider who always underbid me on shows, thinking that eventually he could increase the price to the clients and start making a profit.

Didn't work. Those clients simply expected that they could get an engineer, sound system, lighting, truss with lifts and techs for $1000. I have received calls from those clients and I rather enjoy telling them "I am more expensive than XXXX production company, you need to stick with XXXX"
 
Re: Damn anklebitters

Yeah, very competitive market here in the GTA. Sucks that you lost the bid, but the way I look at it, the ankle biter will only be able to sustain these low prices for only so long before they lose their shirts, if they aren't already worn out doing a lot of work for very little or nothing.
 
Re: Damn anklebitters

Rafi Singer said:
But does he get hired back after ruining said events? If he's been completely screwing everyone who hires him by doing mediocre work, I would predict that things will swing back your way soon.
Click to expand...

Well, one could hope, but often clients that will chicken-bone you over $100 in bid price will continue to select the lowest price regardless. People have to die or get maimed before these types of clients will wonder where the corners have been cut. Unfortunately, these tragedies are usually the final event for those clients so there is no work to take... unless you're a lawyer or undertaker.

Have fun, good luck, don't kill anybody.

Tim Mc
 
Re: Damn anklebitters

Tim McCulloch said:
Well, one could hope, but often clients that will chicken-bone you over $100 in bid price will continue to select the lowest price regardless. People have to die or get maimed before these types of clients will wonder where the corners have been cut. Unfortunately, these tragedies are usually the final event for those clients so there is no work to take... unless you're a lawyer or undertaker.

Have fun, good luck, don't kill anybody.



Tim Mc
Click to expand...

That's exactly what happens. The clients nickle and dime you, the event crashes and burns but they still hire them again because of the bottom line.
 
Re: Damn anklebitters

Steve Ferreira said:
That's exactly what happens. The clients nickle and dime you, the event crashes and burns but they still hire them again because of the bottom line.
Click to expand...

I've experienced this time and time again during my days mixing a band that played a lot of benefit and community events. Something or other goes wrong at the event and for NO MORE than 72 hours the committee that "organized" things acknowledge their error and have every intention of doing things correctly for the next year.

Then they spend the next six months forgetting everything they've "learned" from their mistakes and make them all over again the next time.

We do this all the time. These well meaning people only "produce" events once or twice a year. I kind of feel sorry for them.


"Professional" event planners, on the other hand, I have NO sympathy for whatsoever.
 
Re: Damn anklebitters

Hey, I happen to be an "anklebitter" - what do yous guys have against low level embedded systems programmers anyways ? :razz:

Or perhaps you meant "anklebiters" ? Yah, hate them little yappy dogs too. :evil:
 
Re: Damn anklebitters

And the plot thickens........
So I have a gig 2 weeks after the on that I got screwed on. There is one band performing at both events, this band told the organizers of the first event that they will only use the anklebitter, and that is also a reason to loosing the gig. After digging around a bit, this band tried doing the same thing to me for the other event, the organizer of the second event told them to piss off.
Apparently the band and the "anklebitter" have a little system going together. The band gives him a kickback for the events they do together. To the organizer it seems like they are getting a good deal on the service, but the band is charging more to give some to the provider.
 
Re: Damn anklebitters

Steve Ferreira said:
Apparently the band and the "anklebitter" have a little system going together. The band gives him a kickback for the events they do together. To the organizer it seems like they are getting a good deal on the service, but the band is charging more to give some to the provider.
Click to expand...
How does this "relationship" benefit the band?
 
Top Bottom