Damn anklebitters

Re: Damn anklebitters

This economy certainly has caused folks to rethink some things, others, to become desperate - if not cutthroat when it comes to work. And honestly, I understand the thinking. Certainly ten percent of something is much better than 100 percent of nothing. Now, I am not at the level some of you are, but heavily busy on the local level. As I'm building my little kingdom, I'm seeing guys go in for pennies. I took the high road, stuck to my belief in my abilities and gear, and so far, have been able maintain and grow my client base and bank account. It has led to great opportunities and provided for growth.

I still firmly believe that quality is worth the price. Unfortunately, in these times, it's not about truth, but about perception. Once, as an electrical estimator, I watched many times as "the lowest qualified bid" won the contracts I had painstakingly worked on. It has taken extra effort to convince clients that they still get what they pay for.
 
Re: Damn anklebitters

Ron Kimball said:
If the band really wants this guy doing their sound that much I don't understand the problem?
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It's about a FESTIVAL, not just a single band and a bar gig. If he's as yucky as has been indicated, why would a band insist on him unless they get some kind of kickback or other accommodation from him?
 
Re: Damn anklebitters

Tim McCulloch said:
It's about a FESTIVAL, not just a single band and a bar gig. If he's as yucky as has been indicated, why would a band insist on him unless they get some kind of kickback or other accommodation from him?
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But the OP is saying the band gives HIM a kickback, not the other way around. That's just weird if he sucks ...
 
Re: Damn anklebitters

It is a Festival event, and the band isn't even the headliner. They tried doing the same thing to me on another gig, the client said no way and they replied with "OK". I have sent them emails for a rider and some info on what they need. They haven't replied or called back. It's been 1 month since I tried making contact with these guys. It's a wierd relationship and I found out over the weekend that the provider does the same thing with other groups.
It's just a dirty way of doing business IMHO....
 
Re: Damn anklebitters

Steve Tarak said:
This economy certainly has caused folks to rethink some things, others, to become desperate - if not cutthroat when it comes to work. And honestly, I understand the thinking. Certainly ten percent of something is much better than 100 percent of nothing.
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Unfortunately, that thinking is what drives people out of business. No, 10 percent of something is not always better than 100 percent of nothing. Maybe it would be if there were zero expenses involved. Eg, if you are hired to just show up and work, then maybe it holds water. But if you have a rental rate set for your gear that is reasonable, getting 10% of your asking rate will mean more wear and tear on said gear. Unless your rental prices are WAY out of line, the gear will likely be worn out before you have a chance to make a return on the investment.

I used to be in the camp that would work for any money someone would offer. I had a hard decision to make. Keep working for nothing, or find other work to do. So I found other work. Now, production work is only a small part of what I do. But the jobs I do get are the really well paying ones. My competition hates it. Heck, for some jobs, I even get to hire my competition and pay them BETTER than they are getting working on their own, yet I turn a tidy little profit on the whole thing. Learning to say NO is what made that possible.
 
Re: Damn anklebitters

"getting 10% of your asking rate will mean more wear and tear on said gear. Unless your rental prices are WAY out of line, the gear will likely be worn out before you have a chance to make a return on the investment."

The statement was a figure of speech. The point was there are those willing to take less to get the work. This economy doesn't play well to the "I'm worth $xxx and you damn well better pay me that" attitude. You must prove your value, and until you convince those clients you're worth it, chances you'll be sitting at home on your ass while others work is a reality. Are they worth it? Are they experienced? Likely not. Welcome to America.
 
Re: Damn anklebitters

I just recently worked with a promoter for about 2 months squaring away production for a concert he was doing, with a national band with a rider, along with a generator, etc. After all the preparation work, the promoter decided that he was going to hire "someone highly recommended that does all the Christian events in the area." To try to get back in the door, I told the promoter that I'd meet their price (mind you, I already advanced the show and we were 100% ready). He still went with the other company.

I should also mention that the other company brought an EAW line array for less than $1k.

That night, after the stage guy (a friend of mine) loaded out, he texts me, "The generator those guys brought quit in the middle of the show. National headliner did an acoustic set with no power."

I guarantee I'll be getting the call for that show next time!
 
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Re: Damn anklebitters

Silas Pradetto said:
That night, after the stage guy loaded out, he texts me, "The generator those guys brought quit in the middle of the show. National headliner did an acoustic set with no power."

I guarantee I'll be getting the call for that show next time!
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I sincerely hope you do. But sadly "disasters" like this don't always translate into a reformed promoter willing to spend proper $. There are lots of times when bad stuff like this doesn't happen and things are "good enough", particularly in light of the lowball price. Those promoters who more heavily weigh price above all other factors are not easily changed from that mindset.
 
Re: Damn anklebitters

Silas Pradetto said:
I just recently worked with a promoter for about 2 months squaring away production for a concert he was doing, with a national band with a rider, along with a generator, etc. After all the preparation work, the promoter decided that he was going to hire "someone highly recommended that does all the Christian events in the area." To try to get back in the door, I told the promoter that I'd meet their price (mind you, I already advanced the show and we were 100% ready). He still went with the other company.

I should also mention that the other company brought an EAW line array for less than $1k.

That night, after the stage guy loaded out, he texts me, "The generator those guys brought quit in the middle of the show. National headliner did an acoustic set with no power."

I guarantee I'll be getting the call for that show next time!
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In many ways I'm always kind of glad to hear that something like that happened to an ankle-biter. I mean don't get me wrong, I feel absolutely terrible for the fans who came with high expectations and spent good money, but it does show that the world of production can not be done on the dirt cheap. People just don't seem to understand that real gear does cost real money (as do taxes, insurance, everything else that is required to legally operate a business) and people that come in and undercut like this cannot possibly afford what is necessary to come in and do things the right way. Your situation is especially bogus considering the time and effort I'm sure you put into figuring out the needs and requirements of this event; I'm sure next year you will get it and they will be happy that they paid the extra cash.

I cannot say how many times we've been called into a gig that had previously been done by the lowest bidder (with disastrous results) and it has ended with comments such as "you were ABSOLUTELY worth every extra penny", "this is the first year we had no complaints about the sound", and "we're so glad nothing fell from the ceiling like it did last year" (yes that last one really had happened - here's a lesson kids, don't ever hang anything with clothesline :roll: )

I guess it's just the world we are all living in; just a shame that it seems to always have to go bad first before it gets done right.
 
Re: Damn anklebitters

The best I've had was a job I had done for several years. It was an annual charity auction in the acoustically worst ballroom in the area. It's a royal pain to get any amount of decent sound in the room without problems with echo or feedback. We did the show for a number of years, and would bring in quite a bit of gear for the show. Well, one year, they got a new person in charge that freaked out at what we were charging, so they found someone that would do it 'cheaper' Cheaper being $300. I was charging $1500 for my services, which was pretty cheap for what I was bringing to try and help them out. Any way, a couple weeks before the event, they call me up and say that new guy was wondering what kind of equipment I used to make it sound good in that room, so he could do the same thing. I kindly told them that I could provide that sort of consulting to them, but they would have to pay for it. They didn't and the sound guy ended up bringing a pair of Peavey speakers on sticks. Nobody could hear a thing. The amount they lost on the auction that year was easily more than their 'savings' of not hiring a pro. Every once in a while, there actually is a dollar amount that can be put on hiring the cheap guys instead of the pros.
 
Re: Damn anklebitters

Brian jojade said:
Any way, a couple weeks before the event, they call me up and say that new guy was wondering what kind of equipment I used to make it sound good in that room, so he could do the same thing. I kindly told them that I could provide that sort of consulting to them, but they would have to pay for it.
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At that point I usually tell them that the equipment is not what makes the difference. It's the knowledge of how to operate it. It is very likely that the "biter" wouldn't be able to get anything coherent out of your setup.

Another way to put it is, "Anyone can bring a Stradivarius. Few can play it."
 
Re: Damn anklebitters

Steve Tarak said:
"getting 10% of your asking rate will mean more wear and tear on said gear. Unless your rental prices are WAY out of line, the gear will likely be worn out before you have a chance to make a return on the investment."

The statement was a figure of speech. The point was there are those willing to take less to get the work. This economy doesn't play well to the "I'm worth $xxx and you damn well better pay me that" attitude. You must prove your value, and until you convince those clients you're worth it, chances you'll be sitting at home on your ass while others work is a reality. Are they worth it? Are they experienced? Likely not. Welcome to America.
Click to expand...

Yep!
 
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