Digidesign SC48

Re: Digidesign SC48

Jordan Ochocki said:
That seems like a lot of drives to go through. We just had our first hard drive failure, and it was in our older D-Show, bought in 2007 I believe. We (now) carry a spare drive with each console preloaded with all the software. Perhaps the shock mounting in the SC48 isn't as robust as the rack units.

I think assigning the DCA (VCA) is extremely easy. Press the assign button, select the VCA, select your channels, press the assign button once more and done.
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You would think, for consoles in the $20-80k price range, they could afford $100 to put in an SSD instead of a hard drive? Come on Avid designers, wake up!

PS- iLive uses an SSD. Take that Avid.
 
Re: Digidesign SC48

Jordan Ochocki said:
I think assigning the DCA (VCA) is extremely easy. Press the assign button, select the VCA, select your channels, press the assign button once more and done.
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Versus the: select channel, press DCA button of the PM5D? Mute groups are simple and straight forward on the Venue surfaces, they are even located rigth on the surface. Why can't the DCA groups be the same?
 
Re: Digidesign SC48

Silas Pradetto said:
You would think, for consoles in the $20-80k price range, they could afford $100 to put in an SSD instead of a hard drive? Come on Avid designers, wake up!

PS- iLive uses an SSD. Take that Avid.
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The iLive was also designed years after the D-Show, when SSDs are much more available. While I'm sure it is not "officially supported" by Avid, you should be able to replace the mechanical drive in any D-Show with an SSD. It is, after all, just a computer. I'm sure somebody out there has done it.
 
Re: Digidesign SC48

Jordan Ochocki said:
The iLive was also designed years after the D-Show, when SSDs are much more available. While I'm sure it is not "officially supported" by Avid, you should be able to replace the mechanical drive in any D-Show with an SSD. It is, after all, just a computer. I'm sure somebody out there has done it.
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Agreed. So why would Avid keep replacing hard drives with hard drives, if any single user has experienced multiple show-stopping failures? Why wouldn't they issue a recall or an 'upgrade' and replace all hard drives in the field? For such a high-profile company, they seem to be overlooking one of the cheapest-to-fix points of failure they have.

And, the SC48 is not that old.
 
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Re: Digidesign SC48

Silas Pradetto said:
Agreed. So why would Avid keep replacing hard drives with hard drives, if any single user has experienced multiple show-stopping failures? Why wouldn't they issue a recall or an 'upgrade' and replace all hard drives in the field? For such a high-profile company, they seem to be overlooking one of the cheapest-to-fix points of failure they have.

And, the SC48 is not that old.
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I suspect one concern is that the OS is Windows XP Embedded. XP requires some significant "workarounds" to be fully optimized for SSD drive usage. There is potential for a number of issues including pauses due to delayed writes and many more.

Here's an example of workarounds/tweaks: http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/forum/showthread.php?43460-Making-XP-pro-SSD-friendly

Also, FWIW my SC48 had some rough journeys including being shipped a few times on a pallet for cross-rentals, lots of trailer and box truck rides, and more. Never had an issue, and I was no more cautious with it than with any other console. Sheldon @ Avid is very tuned into user needs and they have a terrific support dept for the venue line - I'm sure if the HD was a big widespread issue they'd do something.
 
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Re: Digidesign SC48

This review comes at a good time for me. I just got an email from a church I have been working with (as an outside consultant) with their technical needs of a few years. They want to talk more about going to a digital console. At the moment the SC48 is on the top of my list of consoles I am thinking of recommending to them.

I have rented and used the iLive that Silas used to have and for what I was doing (musical theater) I really liked it. But I don’t think an iLive is appropriate for this church. And the SC48 wouldn’t have been my choice for the musicals I was doing. For the type of shows I was using the iLive for (musicals with around 23 wireless plus other inputs) I have always needed more channel faders on the surface then the SC48 would give me. But I think the SC48 would be great for this church. The church services are very band and singer intensive. So I think keeping a lot of things on lower layers with the subgroups on the surface would work very well for them. They already have the wiring infrastructure and splitting to the broadcast mix suit in place so a separate stage rack would just get in the way.

I may be wrong but I think the SC48 may be less intimidating for them then looking at all the faders knobs and buttons on the 48 channel GL4000 that the presently have. They actually have run out of outputs not inputs. My only concern is lack of growth capabilities on the SC48. I have mentioned that to them but they don’t think they will need more inputs then they have now. This is not a new church and they have a lot of dedicated inputs now that aren’t always used. Most of their sound people are very computer literate so the digital way of thinking is easy for them.

I am recommending to them that when they are ready to make the commitment that we get a demo board in for them to play with to see if they like it.

Anybody have any comments or recommendations of something else I should consider in this price range and configuration.
 
Re: Digidesign SC48

Hi Kevin-

I strongly suggest the Venue webinars on Avid's website. Since you're dealing with a savvy client, the complexity/flexibility of the product won't scare them. Lots of good stuff there. I've been watching the Snapshot 'nars (twice each so far) and am still absorbing.

The primary downside of the D-Show software for some owners will be the inability to assign user levels and privileges. I think this capability is on the list of upgrades. Perhaps by 3.0...

Have fun, good luck.

Tim Mc
 
Re: Digidesign SC48

Tim McCulloch said:
Hi Kevin-

I strongly suggest the Venue webinars on Avid's website. Since you're dealing with a savvy client, the complexity/flexibility of the product won't scare them. Lots of good stuff there. I've been watching the Snapshot 'nars (twice each so far) and am still absorbing.

The primary downside of the D-Show software for some owners will be the inability to assign user levels and privileges. I think this capability is on the list of upgrades. Perhaps by 3.0...

Have fun, good luck.

Tim Mc
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Thank you. I will have to check those out. It’s been a little while since I went Digidesign class for the SC48.
 
Re: Digidesign SC48

FWIW- In about 3 weeks, myself and Dan Nickleski will be taking a pair of SC48's(FOH and MONS respectively) out on the road for another 7 week run. We'll have them completely loaded down at 48 inputs, and 16+ outputs. I can't wait to see how they hold up!



Evan
 
Re: Digidesign SC48

Guys, per AVID, all VENUE systems are essentially a virtual, or software desks, it's a computer, PC running Windows XP (embedded, so you don't actually see Windows screen layout), with a few DSP and I/O cards. There's NOTHING WRONG with this setup, zillions of Windows PCs are in use everywhere, from tire shops to meat processing plants, each one has a hard drive and all are working fine. AVID did right thing by using Windows OS as a base for their VENUE software, rather than inventing the bicycle and writing all software from scratch. VENUE so far is more stable than any proprietary hardware-software combination, including Yammies, Soundcrafts and Midas with their extraorbital price tags.

BTW the hard drive in VENUE is only 40Gb, probably can be replaced by flash or SSD drive easy.

Another example: KORG Kronos synthesizer. Even if it looks like a hardware synth, it's a PC running version of LINUX operating system. Its main board is 100% standard PC motherboard, not even the latest one, all the sound synthesis is done in software. Essentially it's a software synth integrated into keyboard controlled and still the best sounding and most powerful synthesizer on the market today.
 
Re: Digidesign SC48

When you say "instantly" about time it takes to load a scene in Yamaha desks, you miss one "little" thing: the time it takes to scroll through up to 300 scenes (up to 500 in PM5D) by pressing stupid UP or DOWN buttons. Why Yamaha didn't use a standard numeric keypad for that is a mystery. Funny thing is, it's the same in their newest CL5 desk, a cross between M7CL and PM5D, scroll up and down before you get to the scene you need. Guess someone can't learn from others.
 
Re: Digidesign SC48

Arik,

If you had bothered to read this thread before posting you might know the following things:
  1. It's over two years old.
  2. We're not a bunch of dumbasses, you're lecturing a bunch of experienced and technical engineers who know exactly what the hell the Avid desks are made of.

Get ahold of yourself, man.
 
Re: Digidesign SC48

Since this thread has been brought back from the dead I will add that the church I was talking about in my posts did buy the SC48 with the IO16 option card. It is working out great for them. I even used one for a musical and really liked it. I have used the Avid Profile surface with the mix rack for a bunch of musicals last year and this year. I like the additional faders the Profile surface gives me but I think I like the layout of the C48 better.

I always find it a little bit funny when people on a forum are always telling people to search first but whenever a post is brought back from the dead the resuscitator is criticized for bring back a living corpse. In this case though the reason for the resurrection didn’t seem really appropriate. But it gave me the chance to post an update.
 
Re: Digidesign SC48

Bennett Prescott said:
Arik,

If you had bothered to read this thread before posting you might know the following things:
  1. It's over two years old.
  2. We're not a bunch of dumbasses, you're lecturing a bunch of experienced and technical engineers who know exactly what the hell the Avid desks are made of.

Get ahold of yourself, man.
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Thanks for advice, Bennet! You sounds just like my 12 years old who obviously knows everything!

Not to offend anyone, but:

First, it's an open internet forum, anyone can read it. If you think its readers are limited only to those who post regularly, know-it-all pros, you are dead wrong. Many sound guys who read it are not even registered here and don't leave a trace. They can learn something new for them. And many are not even close to being "experienced and technical engineers" as you proclaim yourself (good term - "technical engineer". Are there engineers that are not technical?)

Second, I do have engineering degree and spent some time at Apple, Inc. as hardware engineer, doing real engineering job that does require a degree and brings nice steady paycheck. I believe I know something about electronics. Sorry to say, but most sound guys I'm dealing with, whatever "engineers" they call themselves, didn't even finished the college and have little clue what's below the surface and how digital desks work. Don't assume that everyone who reads this forum knows as much as you do. That's what forums are for: free exchange of opinions. If you want to be a moderator, go for it and start telling people what to post or deleting posts that you think are too old.

Third, if the post isn't interesting, skip it and go to next. We live in free country and free speech is a part of it. Don't tell ME what to do. Tell to your subordinates (if you have someone who reports to you).

AMEN, Bennett! Get ahold of yourself, man.

TO THE REST OF THE FORUM: thanks for your posts and hands-on opinion on gear. I've made more than a few buying decisions based on this and other forums, saved me bunch of money. THANKS TO ALL OF YOU!
 
Re: Digidesign SC48

Arik Semagin said:
Thanks for advice, Bennet! You sounds just like my 12 years old who obviously knows everything!

Not to offend anyone, but:

First, it's an open internet forum, anyone can read it. If you think its readers are limited only to those who post regularly, know-it-all pros, you are dead wrong. Many sound guys who read it are not even registered here and don't leave a trace. They can learn something new for them. And many are not even close to being "experienced and technical engineers" as you proclaim yourself (good term - "technical engineer". Are there engineers that are not technical?)

Second, I do have engineering degree and spent some time at Apple, Inc. as hardware engineer, doing real engineering job that does require a degree and brings nice steady paycheck. I believe I know something about electronics. Sorry to say, but most sound guys I'm dealing with, whatever "engineers" they call themselves, didn't even finished the college and have little clue what's below the surface and how digital desks work. Don't assume that everyone who reads this forum knows as much as you do. That's what forums are for: free exchange of opinions. If you want to be a moderator, go for it and start telling people what to post or deleting posts that you think are too old.

Third, if the post isn't interesting, skip it and go to next. We live in free country and free speech is a part of it. Don't tell ME what to do. Tell to your subordinates (if you have someone who reports to you).

AMEN, Bennett! Get ahold of yourself, man.

TO THE REST OF THE FORUM: thanks for your posts and hands-on opinion on gear. I've made more than a few buying decisions based on this and other forums, saved me bunch of money. THANKS TO ALL OF YOU!
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Did you know that Bennett is one of the two founders/owners/maintainers/moderators of this site? Lecturing him is not a good idea, since it is his forum.

On the "free speech" crap - this isn't a public sidewalk; there isn't protected speech here. It is someone's living room, and you can be tossed out for cussing, farting, being obnoxious (good start by the way), or any other reason the property owner sees fit.

I would suggest a reboot of your your attempt at joining this community. It is a great one and I too have learned much from these folks. Ranting and raving in your post #3 isn't a good start.
 
TJ Cornish said:
Did you know that Bennett is one of the two founders/owners/maintainers/moderators of this site? Lecturing him is not a good idea, since it is his forum.

On the "free speech" crap - this isn't a public sidewalk; there isn't protected speech here. It is someone's living room, and you can be tossed out for cussing, farting, being obnoxious (good start by the way), or any other reason the property owner sees fit.

I would suggest a reboot of your your attempt at joining this community. It is a great one and I too have learned much from these folks. Ranting and raving in your post #3 isn't a good start.
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Well, actually, there's three moderators - Jeff Babcock holds down DIY Audio and does such a good job I don't even notice issues in that forum. But otherwise I strongly agree ;)

Arik, no need to posture. Just calm down. We only need cool people in this business.
 
Re: Digidesign SC48

TJ Cornish said:
Did you know that Bennett is one of the two founders/owners/maintainers/moderators of this site? Lecturing him is not a good idea, since it is his forum.

On the "free speech" crap - this isn't a public sidewalk; there isn't protected speech here. It is someone's living room, and you can be tossed out for cussing, farting, being obnoxious (good start by the way), or any other reason the property owner sees fit.

I would suggest a reboot of your your attempt at joining this community. It is a great one and I too have learned much from these folks. Ranting and raving in your post #3 isn't a good start.
Click to expand...

Thanks to all, it's a great forum indeed when people can post their questions (even a dumb ones), ask for opinions, read about others' firsthand experience with gear. Without some know-it-all "technical engineers" telling others what to do. I do respect other's opinions, but not the attitude. Besides, Bennet is the one who started showing attitude, not me. But that's ok, I understand some get offended easily.

So, let's get technical and here's my dumb question (to those who know everything about AVID desks): Choosing between a new SC48 and a used Profile with Mixrack (which I can get for only about $5K more than SC48), are there any advantages of later besides bigger Profile surface. Since they both can have I/O cards moved to remote stagebox, is there anything that MixRack does better than SC48, I mean processing-wise? I like Profile, but client insists on new desk, not used. I've read somewhere that SC48 can't handle too many plugins at once, is that the case for MixRack too?

This install could possibly turn into "We should've got a Profile" situation a year later, which I try to avoid.

I really want to hear those who had experience with both desks. Thank you.
 
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