Digital Desk Processing Order?

Re: Digital Desk Processing Order?

Frank Koenig said:
Thank you all. It makes sense to me that, generally, EQ should be upstream of compression. Silas's example of the 200Hz-centered cut on an SM58 is exactly the situation I think of.

I believe that for my (amateur, bar-level) use I'd ideally have

gate -> EQ -> comp,

with the monitor contribution tapped off post EQ and pre comp. My reasoning is that, with well corrected monitor and house speakers, if the tone is good in the house, it won't be too far off in the monitors. Should further monitor tone control or feedback notching be required, it can be accomplished on the monitor output EQ.
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This is my preference as well.

As it relates to monitors being pre-EQ - I can't fathom no channel EQ to the monitors being better than whatever FOH EQ settings to the monitors, even if FOH and monitors are tuned somewhat differently. I would love to hear more from those that run this way to help me understand why you do what you do.
 
Re: Digital Desk Processing Order?

TJ Cornish said:
This is my preference as well.

As it relates to monitors being pre-EQ - I can't fathom no channel EQ to the monitors being better than whatever FOH EQ settings to the monitors, even if FOH and monitors are tuned somewhat differently. I would love to hear more from those that run this way to help me understand why you do what you do.
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I like to split vocal inputs to two strips. This gives me independent control of dynamics and EQ for house and monitors. That way, when someone wants the monitor fatter, I can do it an nit mess up the house mix. I have one artist who is always asking for more bottom end in the monitor but if I don't reduce it in the house it sounds like mud.


Sent from my iPad HD
 
Re: Digital Desk Processing Order?

Rob Spence said:
I like to split vocal inputs to two strips. This gives me independent control of dynamics and EQ for house and monitors. That way, when someone wants the monitor fatter, I can do it an nit mess up the house mix. I have one artist who is always asking for more bottom end in the monitor but if I don't reduce it in the house it sounds like mud.


Sent from my iPad HD
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I understand that, and it makes sense. I'm scratching my head more on what John mentioned - preferring no channel EQ in monitors at all.
 
Re: Digital Desk Processing Order?

TJ Cornish said:
I understand that, and it makes sense. I'm scratching my head more on what John mentioned - preferring no channel EQ in monitors at all.
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That's me. My point was that the FOH speakers don't and shouldn't sound like the monitors do so how would EQ changes translate? I EQ FOH channels to blend into a coherent and layered mix...again usually NOT what is gong on in a monitor mix. I split ch as well for the same reason Rob mentioned. If I EQ a lead vocal wedge to sound good to him, why would I want to change that.
 
Re: Digital Desk Processing Order?

John Chiara said:
That's me. My point was that the FOH speakers don't and shouldn't sound like the monitors do so how would EQ changes translate? I EQ FOH channels to blend into a coherent and layered mix...again usually NOT what is gong on in a monitor mix. I split ch as well for the same reason Rob mentioned. If I EQ a lead vocal wedge to sound good to him, why would I want to change that.
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So you're saying you'd rather have a default SM58 sound in monitors than whatever you arrived at for FOH? Same with the acoustic guitar du jour? I'd rather cut the piezo 1.7K on the channel rather than the mix graphic.

If you split channels, what does that benefit you if your split channels are pre-EQ to monitor sends as well?

I'm clearly missing something here.
 
Re: Digital Desk Processing Order?

A feature missing on every digital desk I've looked at except for the PM5D is the ability to switch the pre/post takeoff point PER CHANNEL rather than per mix. That, with the insert point positionable to be BEFORE the mix send (along with more LPD) makes this console something special for monitor usage. Consoles I've looked into all have the point switchable globally Per Mix rather than per channel, or don't have a pre-processing/post insert takeoff point.

Does anyone know of a professional Digital Mixer that allows for a switchable mix takeoff point on a per channel basis other than the PM5D?
 
Re: Digital Desk Processing Order?

TJ Cornish said:
So you're saying you'd rather have a default SM58 sound in monitors than whatever you arrived at for FOH? Same with the acoustic guitar du jour? I'd rather cut the piezo 1.7K on the channel rather than the mix graphic.

If you split channels, what does that benefit you if your split channels are pre-EQ to monitor sends as well?

I'm clearly missing something here.
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Agreed. My mixers have the aux sends post EQ.


Sent from my iPad HD
 
Re: Digital Desk Processing Order?

Andrew Broughton said:
A feature missing on every digital desk I've looked at except for the PM5D is the ability to switch the pre/post takeoff point PER CHANNEL rather than per mix. That, with the insert point positionable to be BEFORE the mix send (along with more LPD) makes this console something special for monitor usage. Consoles I've looked into all have the point switchable globally Per Mix rather than per channel, or don't have a pre-processing/post insert takeoff point.

Does anyone know of a professional Digital Mixer that allows for a switchable mix takeoff point on a per channel basis other than the PM5D?
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Unless you don't call the x32 a pro desk I'd have to say the m32.

Or did I missunderstand your question?
 
Re: Digital Desk Processing Order?

I don't consider either to be pro, but leaving that aside for the moment, are you saying that I can configure something like this:

Aux 1 send to be Pre-eq on channel 1
Aux 1 send to be Post-eq on channel 2
Aux 1 send to be Post-Fader on channel 3

Insert to be pre-Aux1 send point on channel 1?
 
Re: Digital Desk Processing Order?

TJ Cornish said:
So you're saying you'd rather have a default SM58 sound in monitors than whatever you arrived at for FOH? Same with the acoustic guitar du jour? I'd rather cut the piezo 1.7K on the channel rather than the mix graphic.

If you split channels, what does that benefit you if your split channels are pre-EQ to monitor sends as well?

I'm clearly missing something here.
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Sorry...splitting channels... On my X32 I have ch 11-16 as vocal inputs on the console. I use 11-16 for sending to the monitors. I have inputs 11-16 also assigned to board channels 27-32 which I use for FOH... So I set monitors on 11-16 and mix on 27-32.
Many times the performer wants things to sound a certain way in a wedge and I want it to sound different in the FOH mix.
 
Re: Digital Desk Processing Order?

John Chiara said:
Sorry...splitting channels... On my X32 I have ch 11-16 as vocal inputs on the console. I use 11-16 for sending to the monitors. I have inputs 11-16 also assigned to board channels 27-32 which I use for FOH... So I set monitors on 11-16 and mix on 27-32.
Many times the performer wants things to sound a certain way in a wedge and I want it to sound different in the FOH mix.
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That's completely different than what I took your earlier posts to mean. Thanks for clarifying.
 
Re: Digital Desk Processing Order?

Andrew Broughton said:
I don't consider either to be pro, but leaving that aside for the moment, are you saying that I can configure something like this:

Aux 1 send to be Pre-eq on channel 1
Aux 1 send to be Post-eq on channel 2
Aux 1 send to be Post-Fader on channel 3

Insert to be pre-Aux1 send point on channel 1?
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Yes on all scenarios. They can be configured simultaniously.

On the last scenario you have two options. After pre-fader send or before pre-eq send. With v2 there are even more aux-send options that involves a send before the gate (pre-insert).

Btw, there are two types of sends (depends of your definition of a send). You have the normal mixbusses (just like any aux-send on any mixer) and then you have output sends (see picture) that can be configured with even more tap options.
 

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Re: Digital Desk Processing Order?

Rob Timmerman said:
Yamaha LS9/M7
EQ -> Gate -> Comp (well, EQ -> DYN1 -> DYN2, with gates typically only available on DYN1)
pre-fade sends available pre-EQ and post EQ and dynamics

Dyn1's sidechain input is switchable pre-EQ or post-EQ on a per-channel basis (or it can take it's sidechain signal from any one of a number of other sources). I don't know how that affects the pre-fade sends, as I've always run dual layers.
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