Event Board Recording SNAFU

Jan 14, 2011
304
1
18
37
San Francisco, CA
Hi guys,

I'm seeking some advice on dealing with a difficult client.

I get called a week out for an event that was close to my company's warehouse, on a day that already had one sizeable event and was pretty complicated logistically. However, my phone call with the client led me to believe that it wasn't going to be very difficult. She described a retirement dinner at which her husband was going to be surprised by a song and dance routine, for which they needed 6 wireless headset microphones. Also, she said the videographer needed a mixed feed.

My thinking was that I could send one of our medium-level engineers to handle an event at a small venue to mix six channels in the house (two of our speakers on sticks) and provide an aux feed to a camera. The performance turned out to be a lot more complicated, with a backing track and people entering from backstage, etc, and it was a multi-camera shoot. There was one hour of rehearsal for this show, which according to my engineer went mostly fine. One channel of wireless dropped out a few times, but she was not able to locate the source of the problem or reproduce it again. The videographer said after rehearsals that everything sounded "great".

Then the actual performance took place, and everything went to crap apparently. The channel that had been dropping out during rehearsal (conveniently the client's daughter's mic) started dropping out again, and the engineer was caught off guard several times when people took the stage, so levels were uneven. It's obvious that more rehearsal was needed, mostly for the engineer's sake.

Anyway, I already refunded her 25% of the total for the bad mic channel, and we seemed to be on the same page about the fact that things sometimes go wrong at live events.

When she actually saw the final product, the client became irate, saying that the inconsistent audio had ruined the video (which will likely sit on her husband's desk, never to be watched again, but that's besides the point). My business partner watched the video and his opinion is that we were providing a board feed, subject to all the surprises of live events, but she wanted a polished deliverable, as I said above. Had she been clear about that in our discussions, I would have supplied a second engineer and maybe even a second console, so my engineer wouldn't be stuck trying to mix the house and the video at the same time.

Here's the video, tell me if you think I should refund all her money back, or if I can talk my way out of this sorry mess: Greg Galluzzo Flash Mob - YouTube

Thanks.
 
Re: Event Board Recording SNAFU

Boils down to lack of communication about what was expected. IMO "Mixed audio feed" was her way of telling you it should be properly mixed, you interpreted it as a board feed.

What is the client expecting to happen now?
 
Re: Event Board Recording SNAFU

If this audio is the actual board feed I'm surprised by the uneveness(?) between the mics and also compared to the 2-track. Some mics also sound distorted?! Could it be that the videographer had set his levels wrong or if the feed level had rised during the show or after soundcheck?

If it sounded like that in the pa during the event I'd take away 50-75% of the price depending on how the importance of the video feed was comunicated. Otherwise I'd take away 25-50%.

However, even if you provide a feed the responsibility is still with the reciever (aka. the videographer) to monitor and check the incoming sound and levels into his equipment and tell you of any problems with the feed.

In the future it is best to have written agreements on what is provided/required for some event. Even if it sounds like a simple event.

Just a simple thing like mechanical rights are forgotten all the time. Unless written in contract you own the mechanical rights to the audio recording and the video producer are not allowed to use the audio without a written agreement from you!

And I also have to mention the fee and permissions to use others music for a produced video ;) An interesting thing is also the rights of the performers. The producer actually needs the performers permission as well. It's a djungle out there :)
 
Re: Event Board Recording SNAFU

I suppose it depends on how much you charged them. If the client paid for something higher quality, then I would seriously consider it. But if they paid for something around this quality, stand your ground. It's still better than what most people would be able to get out of their cameras.

+1 to Jeff's opinion

EDIT: and Robert's addition about intellectual property is great

MOAR EDIT: Robert- from what it sounds like, I'd say the engineer had thought that the aux was set up as a post, but in fact it was still switched to pre. Thus, the levels didn't change. Perhaps some of the channels were switched to pre and not others. That's possible too.
 
Re: Event Board Recording SNAFU

Why I wouldn't say a full refund is to be considered is the fact (I assume) that no complaints about the pa sound was made during or right after the event.

This means that the client had some benefit of the service provided. All depends on how the video feed was communicated...
 
Last edited:
Re: Event Board Recording SNAFU

Give her the refund. The good will is worth it, the hassle is not worth the $$$.

FWIW, I do this sort of thing constantly (live stereo direct to camera) and other than the drop-outs on the wireless, I'd give them their money back if that's all the better I could do. And I seldom get any rehearsal time, just enough of a line check to set input gains.

How hard is it to set up some compression and limiting to make all the vocals come out the same? Sure, you lose some dynamics but your a** is covered. If you're running the house sound with tracks and vocals, there's no need to feed the camera anything but the house feed.

I wouldn't be in business long if that's all the better I could do. Sorry, but ...

Edit:

To be fair, I work for the videographers to provide their audio, not for their customer.
 
Last edited:
Re: Event Board Recording SNAFU

MOAR EDIT: Robert- from what it sounds like, I'd say the engineer had thought that the aux was set up as a post, but in fact it was still switched to pre. Thus, the levels didn't change. Perhaps some of the channels were switched to pre and not others. That's possible too.
If this is true then the sound engineer wasn't the right person for this type of job.

However, it is still the responsability of the audio feed reciever to monitor the feed into his equipment. If he didn't then the recorded audio problems can't be blamed on the sound engineer...
 
Re: Event Board Recording SNAFU

Honestly, I'd be embarrassed to even send a bill. Singers not singing into their mikes, performers switching off their transmitters, the feed being distorted by the camera crew setting wrong levels, all those things are outside the sound provider's control, but that didn't seem to be the case here, this sounded like someone that didn't know how to do their job.
The client might not have been clear about what she wanted from a technical point of view, but when dealing with clients from the general public, one has to be aware of that. When providing a service to someone that can't be reasonably expected to know the details of their needs, it is up to the provider to make sure that the details are provided or at least discussed.
The client might have gone to great expense getting the video produced, and the video is clearly ruined by the bad mix.
 
Re: Event Board Recording SNAFU

Guys, thanks for all the input. I think I'm going to give her the refund and not upset her any further.

The truth is that the engineer working this gig did not keep a cool head when troubleshooting the problem mic, and she didn't use compression, even though it was in the rack. She also didn't think through how to properly set up the levels for the video separate from levels in the house. I won't dock her pay, so this is just an expensive lesson about what kind of jobs not to put her on.
 
Re: Event Board Recording SNAFU

In this case I would have done a multitrack recording as a safety. Not sure what console you were using.

John....

While it's a nice idea to multi-track things, the increase in time and expense makes it prohibitive. Maybe it is "specialized" audio to nail it in one take with no rehearsal, but with a proper board and rack or digital "all in one" console, it can be done.

I'd have to charge a heck of a lot more for my work if my back-up was multi-track. As it is, I have audio to the camera direct and two different back-up recording units, one with video time code and the other a simple digital recording.

Edit:

Total isolation headphones are a must have.
 
Re: Event Board Recording SNAFU

I was speaking of my own small setups .which would be a Mackie Onyx with FW or an X32 with FW. Literally opening Reaper, choosing a template and hitting record. I am doing a small private festival and am offering all the bands the option but I will just record all the sets multitrack as it is easier and less complicated.
 
Re: Event Board Recording SNAFU

Boils down to lack of communication about what was expected. IMO "Mixed audio feed" was her way of telling you it should be properly mixed, you interpreted it as a board feed.

What is the client expecting to happen now?

There may have been miscommunication but that doesn't explain the poor results. There is no reason a board feed shouldn't sound much better than the example given. The room must have sounded the same.

I think a refund is in order.
 
Re: Event Board Recording SNAFU

After listening to just a small portion of that, I'd say give her a refund. Distortion like that is unacceptable and inexcusable, given that there was a rehearsal.

It sounds like your "medium-level" engineer did not know the gear they were using; the gain structure for the WX mics was set incorrectly.



Hi guys,
When she actually saw the final product, the client became irate, saying that the inconsistent audio had ruined the video (which will likely sit on her husband's desk, never to be watched again, but that's besides the point).
Unless you know that man personally, I wouldn't make this assumption. Just sayin'...
 
Last edited:
Re: Event Board Recording SNAFU

It sounds like someone "helped" convince her to ask for all of her money back between when you talked to her the 1st time (25% discount) and the 2nd time. Your problem with this job brings up a bigger issue: how do we as an industry deal with the potential unreliability of wireless technologies? Although it doesn't seem that all of the mic problems were from wireless drop outs (seemed like some missed cues as well) the fact that there are problems with mics dropping out is real and many laymen clients don't understand the situation the way seasoned professionals do. In this case you had an event with a very important segment that only lasted a few minutes and it pretty much had to be done with wireless mics. Those are the hardest. It doesn't surprise me that something went wrong (just out of curiosity, what wireless were u using?). I'm surprised the video editor didn't use some camera mic mixed in. That might have saved it. Of course, it may have been the video co who convinced the client that the sound co was entirely at fault. In that case they wanted the sound to be as bad as possible when they showed it to the client.

Also, did the sound tech have to work out the switch from handheld to headset near the beginning of the song? That might have been a source of distraction.
 
Last edited:
Re: Event Board Recording SNAFU

Guys, thanks for all the input. I think I'm going to give her the refund and not upset her any further.

The truth is that the engineer working this gig did not keep a cool head when troubleshooting the problem mic, and she didn't use compression, even though it was in the rack. She also didn't think through how to properly set up the levels for the video separate from levels in the house. I won't dock her pay, so this is just an expensive lesson about what kind of jobs not to put her on.

For future reference, was the rehearsal recorded as well?

That has been standard practice for a friend of mine that videos weddings.
 
Re: Event Board Recording SNAFU

Your problem with this job brings up a bigger issue: how do we as an industry deal with the potential unreliability of wireless technologies?

Don't use crap wireless, and set it up right. I specify my wireless commensurate with the level of event. EW100G3 systems, frequency coordinated with distro and paddle are now the minimum I send out for anything remotely corporate or important. Legit corporate and concert applications get our UHF-R or EW500 series. We always say on here that the best RF mic is less reliable than a wired, but I think as a whole with the newest crop of wireless technology, even the "lowly" EW100 series is pretty rock solid 99% of the time if you set it up right.

Yes, it makes our prices more than someone bringing out Audio-technica freeway series, but in the end we aren't debating whether or not to refund a client's invoice.
 
Last edited: