F*** off, this is a soundcheck not a bleedin' rehearsal!

[Per Søvik]

Rant:
Sometimes you just want to tell them to f*** off, and today was certainly one of those days.
10 piece choir/soloists plus a handfull of actors, shouldn't be too bad, should it?
Even had the soundcheck scheduled with a line check/individual voicing and monitor levels before a run through of the show.

Starts out really great with the actors not turning up on time for their wireless, and the conductor/producer starts nagging me because we are running behind.
Once I get the actors fitted, the conductor/producer has "important" information for the actors while I wait impatiently for some attention from the actors, repeating "Tell me when you are ready for linecheck" thru' the talkback every time there is a smal break that might signify the end of the conductor/producer's talk to the actors.
We finally run out of the actors' alotted time and the conductor/producer tells me we better get on with the singers because we're behind.
I sigh to myself and say "Yeah sure, can the first soloist tell me if the monitor level is ok?"
After getting confirmation from that one singer that she can actually hear her voice in the monitor, I get interrupted again by the "important information" the conductor/producer has to give to the singers. Same story again, I try to get in there, a bit more urgency in my voice this time around, but to no avail, the alotted time passes and the conductor/producer stops talking to the singers and again informs me that we're out of time, and tells me off for keeping them back.
So we do a run through, me nearly tossing my toys out of the pram when I several times get prevented from getting usefull comunication with the singers, every time being told off by the conductor/producer who is by now complaining about the sound, the balance of the mix, the choir not sounding like a choir, etc.
We finish the run through, and the conductor/producer, by now really angry, tells me I'm not doing my job because the sound in the beginning was terrible, it was only good towards the end!!!!!

I give up!!!

 

[Helge A. Bentsen]

Re: F*** off, this is a soundcheck not a bleedin' rehearsal!

When people are that non-cooperative, you need to charge more. A lot more. Double your price, and then add 30% for the hassle.

 

[Lisa Lane-Collins]

Re: F*** off, this is a soundcheck not a bleedin' rehearsal!

Oooh, yes, this ^

tells me I'm not doing my job because the sound in the beginning was terrible, it was only good towards the end!!!!!

*facepalm*

 

[Geri O'Neil]

Re: F*** off, this is a soundcheck not a bleedin' rehearsal!

When I run into a difficult band director/conductor/choral director that starts this crap, I'll point-blank ask them "how many rehearsals have you had with your artists?" I get some vague stupid deer-in-the-headlights look and usually an answer that indicates they've had several rehearsals. I then say "Well, that's awesome. And just how many rehearsals have I had? Oh, but I'm supposed to have my part of the event together with no rehearsal", then I just walk off.

I've never gotten any more grief afterwards.

No, this won't get you a client relationship award. But if it's going down in flames and there's nothing left to lose, why not?

Geri O

 

[John Halliburton]

Re: F*** off, this is a soundcheck not a bleedin' rehearsal!

When I run into a difficult band director/conductor/choral director that starts this crap, I'll point-blank ask them "how many rehearsals have you had with your artists?" I get some vague stupid deer-in-the-headlights look and usually an answer that indicates they've had several rehearsals. I then say "Well, that's awesome. And just how many rehearsals have I had? Oh, but I'm supposed to have my part of the event together with no rehearsal", then I just walk off.

I've never gotten any more grief afterwards.

No, this won't get you a client relationship award. But if it's going down in flames and there's nothing left to lose, why not?

Geri O

Haven't had to play that card yet.

However, I've learned to always ask about rehearsal time after soundcheck when getting hired for either choirs or dance shows. I make a point of outlining the schedule for the day with the producer or director. Once I've got everybody dialed in, I tell the director to have at it, and that I'll be tweaking the sound as I go for the house, and if anyone on stage needs something, to please tell me.

It's worked so far.

Best regards,

John

 

[Silas Pradetto]

Re: F*** off, this is a soundcheck not a bleedin' rehearsal!

Haven't had to play that card yet.

However, I've learned to always ask about rehearsal time after soundcheck when getting hired for either choirs or dance shows. I make a point of outlining the schedule for the day with the producer or director. Once I've got everybody dialed in, I tell the director to have at it, and that I'll be tweaking the sound as I go for the house, and if anyone on stage needs something, to please tell me.

It's worked so far.

Best regards,

John

Communication is always key.

I get especially annoyed when a band decides to use their soundcheck as a practice session. Or when cover bands need sheet music. Ridiculous.

 

[Geri O'Neil]

Re: F*** off, this is a soundcheck not a bleedin' rehearsal!

Haven't had to play that card yet.

However, I've learned to always ask about rehearsal time after soundcheck when getting hired for either choirs or dance shows. I make a point of outlining the schedule for the day with the producer or director. Once I've got everybody dialed in, I tell the director to have at it, and that I'll be tweaking the sound as I go for the house, and if anyone on stage needs something, to please tell me.

It's worked so far.

Best regards,

John

Yes, communication is indeed the key and a practice that I've engaged in for the 25 or so years I've been doing this now.

I'm speaking of the one time out of ten that a conversation has happened, plans and schedules made, then the day of the event comes and the director/conductor/ (you know, the one that you communicated with?) totally throws all of that out of the window and proceeds as he or she sees fit and sound checks be damned.

Geri O

 

[Dick Rees]

Re: F*** off, this is a soundcheck not a bleedin' rehearsal!

It's like this:

 

[Jay Barracato]

It's like this:

Or "I am paid the same for sitting here waiting for you or running your check. Let me know which one you want to do."

 

[Per Søvik]

Re: F*** off, this is a soundcheck not a bleedin' rehearsal!

Of course, after the show, that was yesterday afternoon, the conductor/producer got compliments for the sound from a couple of journalists, so I'm back in the good book untill next time.
If I could just make them understand that running a music theatre production including lights single handed means I sometimes need my space and my alotted time (and then some on occasions.)
Oh well, I'm not getting paid to do it, so doubling my fees won't amount to much, my fee is the pleasure of helping out and the pleasure of seeing shows and performances that would not happen if it were not for the free equipment and labour we supply.

 

[Robert Lofgren]

Re: F*** off, this is a soundcheck not a bleedin' rehearsal!

Have you ever had to do young teenagers school kids shows and then i.e. ask the drummer what he wants in his drum monitor and very surprised asks what the monitor is for.

Or the singer who get the craps when putting down the mic on the monitor and asks why it did that. And when singing they have the mic at their navel for some ******* reason even though you've tried to tell them a million times not to.

Now multiply this with everyone going on stage for their small 3 minutes acts (while also grabbing the wrong mics all the time) and you find yourself in a nightmare.

Oh, and autotune would explode while trying to correct their pitches on both vox and instruments!

 

[Jake Scudder]

Re: F*** off, this is a soundcheck not a bleedin' rehearsal!

Rant:
Sometimes you just want to tell them to f*** off, and today was certainly one of those days.
10 piece choir/soloists plus a handfull of actors, shouldn't be too bad, should it?
Even had the soundcheck scheduled with a line check/individual voicing and monitor levels before a run through of the show.

Starts out really great with the actors not turning up on time for their wireless, and the conductor/producer starts nagging me because we are running behind.
Once I get the actors fitted, the conductor/producer has "important" information for the actors while I wait impatiently for some attention from the actors, repeating "Tell me when you are ready for linecheck" thru' the talkback every time there is a smal break that might signify the end of the conductor/producer's talk to the actors.
We finally run out of the actors' alotted time and the conductor/producer tells me we better get on with the singers because we're behind.
I sigh to myself and say "Yeah sure, can the first soloist tell me if the monitor level is ok?"
After getting confirmation from that one singer that she can actually hear her voice in the monitor, I get interrupted again by the "important information" the conductor/producer has to give to the singers. Same story again, I try to get in there, a bit more urgency in my voice this time around, but to no avail, the alotted time passes and the conductor/producer stops talking to the singers and again informs me that we're out of time, and tells me off for keeping them back.
So we do a run through, me nearly tossing my toys out of the pram when I several times get prevented from getting usefull comunication with the singers, every time being told off by the conductor/producer who is by now complaining about the sound, the balance of the mix, the choir not sounding like a choir, etc.
We finish the run through, and the conductor/producer, by now really angry, tells me I'm not doing my job because the sound in the beginning was terrible, it was only good towards the end!!!!!

I give up!!!

I have never worked in a theatrical production at any level that didn't have a stage manager. This doesn't mean, even at the highest levels of professional theater, the stage manager won't get steamrolled by a director or producer. It does mean that you aren't being forced into a confrontation. It doesn't mean that you will get the time needed. It does mean that you have a schedule to point to when you don't. Seems to me the production needed better management.

-JS

 

[Ivan Beaver]

Re: F*** off, this is a soundcheck not a bleedin' rehearsal!

Have you ever had to do young teenagers school kids shows and then i.e. ask the drummer what he wants in his drum monitor and very surprised asks what the monitor is for.

Or the singer who get the craps when putting down the mic on the monitor and asks why it did that. And when singing they have the mic at their navel for some ******* reason even though you've tried to tell them a million times not to.

Now multiply this with everyone going on stage for their small 3 minutes acts (while also grabbing the wrong mics all the time) and you find yourself in a nightmare.

Oh, and autotune would explode while trying to correct their pitches on both vox and instruments!

But they do it on TV and the movies all the time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

People just walk up and start playing and it sounds great-the lights are perfectly timed and so forth. So why wouldn't people expect to "just walk out andperform" and everything else comes out perfect? It is what they have been led to "believe".

 

[Eric Snodgrass]

Re: F*** off, this is a soundcheck not a bleedin' rehearsal!

I have never worked in a theatrical production at any level that didn't have a stage manager.

Then consider yourself extremely fortunate. I've done countless gigs that had no stage manager and no organization. Those make for long days.

 

[Per Søvik]

Re: F*** off, this is a soundcheck not a bleedin' rehearsal!

I have never worked in a theatrical production at any level that didn't have a stage manager. This doesn't mean, even at the highest levels of professional theater, the stage manager won't get steamrolled by a director or producer. It does mean that you aren't being forced into a confrontation. It doesn't mean that you will get the time needed. It does mean that you have a schedule to point to when you don't. Seems to me the production needed better management.

-JS

Geez, we're sooo opposite ends of the scale, where you have a week for tech, we have a couple of hours at most, where you have a week of venue rehersals we have a single run through. "Production" and "Managment" are words that are too big for my world, even "Theater" is an ambitious word for most of the venues ~;-)~:wink:
Working on "Noway" means no money, no time, no staff, no volunteers. A "Noway" show happens not because of what is available, but despite of everything that is not.
Fortunately, when I or those I provide a service for screw up, we don't get slaughtered in the entertainment section of New York Times :uhoh:

I definitely get your point about having a stage manager, but I imagine such a job is too demanding to expect to find a suitable candidate among the parents and (non existing) volunteers that might be available for productions at this level (amateur school kids directed and produced by their singing teacher/acting teacher)

My only reward is that I get to hear performances like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3If9zKJNwA&feature=share

 

[Per Søvik]

Re: F*** off, this is a soundcheck not a bleedin' rehearsal!

But they do it on TV and the movies all the time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

People just walk up and start playing and it sounds great-the lights are perfectly timed and so forth. So why wouldn't people expect to "just walk out andperform" and everything else comes out perfect? It is what they have been led to "believe".

Of course, with "real" soundpeople, it sounds like a studio from the opening note, except for the customary feedback when someone grabs the mike (I can do that). No wonder they think I'm an incompetent idiot (maybe I am).

One scene I really like in the movie "School of Rock" is when this kid steps up to the lights computer, loads his showfile and it is perfect. Leads me to believe all venues in the US have completely standardized light rigs with standard calibration, alignment and positions for all fixed and movable fixtures. ~~:smile:

 

[Jake Scudder]

Re: F*** off, this is a soundcheck not a bleedin' rehearsal!

Geez, we're sooo opposite ends of the scale, where you have a week for tech, we have a couple of hours at most, where you have a week of venue rehersals we have a single run through. "Production" and "Managment" are words that are too big for my world, even "Theater" is an ambitious word for most of the venues ~;-)~:wink:
Working on "Noway" means no money, no time, no staff, no volunteers. A "Noway" show happens not because of what is available, but despite of everything that is not.
Fortunately, when I or those I provide a service for screw up, we don't get slaughtered in the entertainment section of New York Times :uhoh:

I definitely get your point about having a stage manager, but I imagine such a job is too demanding to expect to find a suitable candidate among the parents and (non existing) volunteers that might be available for productions at this level (amateur school kids directed and produced by their singing teacher/acting teacher)

My only reward is that I get to hear performances like this: Feelin´Good - Åsa Vigen Bardal - YouTube

Actually, for the last show we had three weeks of prep time in the shop, four weeks of load in time at the theater, three weeks of tech, and five weeks of previews before opening night. But that wasn't my point. My point is that there has to be someone who is responsible for keeping to schedule and staying on task. I understand your frustration. At the very least, maybe you could ask for a short meeting before the next production and voice some of your concerns. Even a polite email, especially now that you are in good standing again, might help this person understand that there is a way for you all to work together more efficiently. Venting your frustration here is certainly understandable, and probably cathartic to some degree but there may be some simple steps you can take that will have a more meaningful impact on the situation over time.

You are right that we are currently working on different ends of the scale. Obviously, that hasn't always been the case so I do have some understanding of the situation you are in. I am very fortunate to work on some great projects but you shouldn't be tricked into thinking that Broadway is somehow this magical place where sound people are understood and appreciated. We do get time for system tuning/SIM. We usually get some sound check time with the orchestra but this is during the band seating call and the comfort of the musicians is the priority of the call. Any actual sound check time we get there is a bonus, not a guarantee. I've never seen individual sound checks with performers. Almost everything is done in real time during tech/rehearsals.

And, for the record, you can do everything right and still get hammered by The Times.

 

[Craig Hauber]

Re: F*** off, this is a soundcheck not a bleedin' rehearsal!

Actually, for the last show we had three weeks of prep time in the shop, four weeks of load in time at the theater, three weeks of tech, and five weeks of previews before opening night.

Is that normal for broadway? Or is that just for a whole new show?

-by opening if you don't have it right then resign because you suck! (just kidding~~:smile:


I come from the level of a 4-week run maximum with only a 7-day rehearsal schedule (hell-weekend, 1 final tech, 1 tech/dress, 1 dress, 1 preview then open fri night) -and consider that the best we can achieve within my needs, IA and AE guidelines

There's a massive difference between this and a one-night amateur-cast "gig"

I do a regular citywide talent show where over the years we've managed to get granted 1 full tech and 1 dress rehearsal before the show -and even then the people in charge make it out to be such an inconvenience!

Yes the TV and Movie industry has definitely done us a disservice with how kids and parents perceive stage-shows!

 

[Jake Scudder]

Re: F*** off, this is a soundcheck not a bleedin' rehearsal!

Is that normal for broadway? Or is that just for a whole new show?

-by opening if you don't have it right then resign because you suck! (just kidding~~:smile:


I come from the level of a 4-week run maximum with only a 7-day rehearsal schedule (hell-weekend, 1 final tech, 1 tech/dress, 1 dress, 1 preview then open fri night) -and consider that the best we can achieve within my needs, IA and AE guidelines

There's a massive difference between this and a one-night amateur-cast "gig"

I do a regular citywide talent show where over the years we've managed to get granted 1 full tech and 1 dress rehearsal before the show -and even then the people in charge make it out to be such an inconvenience!

Yes the TV and Movie industry has definitely done us a disservice with how kids and parents perceive stage-shows!

I'd say it is on the long side of normal for a Broadway musical. Certainly not unprecedented but probably an extra week or two of load in and and extra week or two of previews in comparison to many shows. The show has a lot of automated scenery and FOY (flying).

It does seem like a lot of time but there is also a lot more to accomplish. It isn't uncommon to be running the show (or at least an act) for the first time with an audience. And preview audiences are paying full price. It is a time to polish and work out kinks for sure but we'd be fired long before opening if it was taking us that long to get it together.

 

[Per Søvik]

Re: F*** off, this is a soundcheck not a bleedin' rehearsal!

Actually, for the last show we had three weeks of prep time in the shop, four weeks of load in time at the theater, three weeks of tech, and five weeks of previews before opening night. But that wasn't my point. My point is that there has to be someone who is responsible for keeping to schedule and staying on task. I understand your frustration. At the very least, maybe you could ask for a short meeting before the next production and voice some of your concerns. Even a polite email, especially now that you are in good standing again, might help this person understand that there is a way for you all to work together more efficiently. Venting your frustration here is certainly understandable, and probably cathartic to some degree but there may be some simple steps you can take that will have a more meaningful impact on the situation over time.

Since I happen to be married to this particular producer/director, I don't need to write an e-mail or request a meeting. However, she's adamant that she doesn't need a stage manager as long as I have my shit together, so there :roll:. I'll still try to make her consider it, but there is still the problem of finding someone qualified that would volunteer for that job. My experience with a stage manager hasn't been too great though, as in that case sound didn't even enter into the equation as it was a play with no music, only sound effects and headsets for the actors, and nobody was willing to give any thought to neither the logistics nor any other aspect of the sound.

You are right that we are currently working on different ends of the scale. Obviously, that hasn't always been the case so I do have some understanding of the situation you are in. I am very fortunate to work on some great projects but you shouldn't be tricked into thinking that Broadway is somehow this magical place where sound people are understood and appreciated. We do get time for system tuning/SIM. We usually get some sound check time with the orchestra but this is during the band seating call and the comfort of the musicians is the priority of the call. Any actual sound check time we get there is a bonus, not a guarantee. I've never seen individual sound checks with performers. Almost everything is done in real time during tech/rehearsals..

I guess at your level you are expected to have it together all the time by default, and even if that wasn't the case, I'd never expect to be given time for souncheck when the timeframe is a week or more for rehersals.

And, for the record, you can do everything right and still get hammered by The Times.

:twisted: