Re: Flown Subs, Ground Bounce, and People in 1/2 space
Found the blog post: http://www.ratsound.com/cblog/archives/334-Figuring-and-Flying.html
Greg
Found the blog post: http://www.ratsound.com/cblog/archives/334-Figuring-and-Flying.html
Greg
It will block all your sight lines, is what it will do.I should try and mess around with MAPP again and see what happens as you then lower that sub to say 10-20ft off the ground.
It will block all your sight lines, is what it will do.
If flown sub arrays really had a huge detriment, they wouldn't be the holy grail of the big leagues.
If you are simply curious, why not download the free MAPP program from Meyers.I'm am thinking about like in a small club environment when they fly subs 12-20ft off the ground. I am just curious what happens as you lower the subs, just so I can picture what is happening as the sub is moved closer and further away from the ground.
If you have a second I would be very curious of maybe 3 frequencies, 35, 60, 100hz ish; with a sub about 15ft off the ground, to see what happens as you lower the sub.
Thanks Much,
Phil
I think that people often seem to approach the effects of the floor the subs and the effects of the floor on the listeners as two separate events when they are actually addressing he same thing as the floor is a shared boundary.
To really mess up those that argue about losing level with flown subs, consider flying the subs very near the ceiling. Now the 'loading' boundary for the sub and the boundary affecting the listeners are two different boundaries and the effects can superimpose, resulting an in increase versus gorund stacked subs. However, a common issue with flown subs indoors is not paying attention to the relationship to the ceiling and surrounding surfaces, resulting in cancellation toward the listeners at relevant frequencies.
Ahh, yes, the ceiling causing a cancellation. That really could be an issue with smaller clubs, because there are times that the crowd almost gets 180 degrees below the flown subs/array and therefore would be recieving the largest time difference from the reflection off the ceiling.
In most small venues there is limited opportunity to work with steered bass arrays due to size & placement issues; hell, sometimes you have to hunt for a place to put a single sub! But there is a point at which you & Cap'n Kirk will ask Scotty to fight the laws of physics and you will not prevail. Every building has boundary surfaces and their physical relationship to one another is beyond your control. Sometimes you just have to let it go, do the gig and go home.
Have fun, good luck.
Tim Mc
Here is a spreadsheet I put together to be able to calculate the first notch frequency. Hope this will be helpful.
View attachment 966
In most small venues there is limited opportunity to work with steered bass arrays due to size & placement issues; hell, sometimes you have to hunt for a place to put a single sub! But there is a point at which you & Cap'n Kirk will ask Scotty to fight the laws of physics and you will not prevail. Every building has boundary surfaces and their physical relationship to one another is beyond your control. Sometimes you just have to let it go, do the gig and go home.
All absolutely true.
But... if you think about this stuff, and develop some idea about how it use it when it is possible... then once in a long while, when the need arises and the laws of physics are in your favor, you have the opportunity to look like a real true genius.
Better yet, model a flown end-fire type array.This got some traction in a thread about under-deck sub array on Carrie Underwood's "push play" tour. I think you'll find the discussion relevant.
Bruce Reiter has links to pic of a flown version here: http://www.soundforums.net/live/threads/783-Carrie-Underwood-Sub-Woofer-Array?p=6596#post6596
If this is an end-fire setup then the subs are actually firing forward, parallel to the ground and above the people's heads? I wonder whether there is a way to direct the LF a bit downwards (from a flown center sub cluster) to get more level on the floor?