FOH AC Power with Digital Snake - questions

M

Matt Duncan

Freshman
May 9, 2011
61
0
6
Concord, NC
To those who are running some form of digital snake system (remote I/O boxes or 2 consoles with a digital connection between them), how are you getting power to FOH? Are you still pulling a power cable from the stage/distro or are you finding an outlet near FOH?

Am I correct in saying that with a cat5 or other digital connection, the potential for ground loops between the stage & FOH are totally eliminated?

Thanks!!
 
Re: FOH AC Power with Digital Snake - questions

Matt Duncan said:
To those who are running some form of digital snake system (remote I/O boxes or 2 consoles with a digital connection between them), how are you getting power to FOH? Are you still pulling a power cable from the stage/distro or are you finding an outlet near FOH?

Am I correct in saying that with a cat5 or other digital connection, the potential for ground loops between the stage & FOH are totally eliminated?

Thanks!!
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No ground loops (at least in the sense of those that could interfere with audio - there are always ground loops with multiple devices that have both power and signal connections) with a digital snake, assuming all your audio goes over the digital snake. If you've got headcoms, other analog audio, etc., then it may be still worth pulling a circuit from stage.
 
Re: FOH AC Power with Digital Snake - questions

In Varsity world it's always worth pulling a circuit to FOH since then it's your circuit, your cable, your breaker, your power - and you can't blame anyone else for screwing it up. In JV world, where 20A to FOH is big power, it may even be an advantage to pull local power at FOH. Who knows how many breakers provide for those stage outlets, but there's a pretty good chance you've got a dedicated outlet at FOH. If I were running a digital snake and a SOS rig I'd definitely be sourcing power at FOH.
 
Re: FOH AC Power with Digital Snake - questions

TJ Cornish said:
No ground loops (at least in the sense of those that could interfere with audio - there are always ground loops with multiple devices that have both power and signal connections) with a digital snake, assuming all your audio goes over the digital snake. If you've got headcoms, other analog audio, etc., then it may be still worth pulling a circuit from stage.
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No coms at my level or anything other than a couple MacBooks for control & recording.

Bennett Prescott said:
In Varsity world it's always worth pulling a circuit to FOH since then it's your circuit, your cable, your breaker, your power - and you can't blame anyone else for screwing it up. In JV world, where 20A to FOH is big power, it may even be an advantage to pull local power at FOH. Who knows how many breakers provide for those stage outlets, but there's a pretty good chance you've got a dedicated outlet at FOH. If I were running a digital snake and a SOS rig I'd definitely be sourcing power at FOH.
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Bennett, you pretty much hit it on the head...QSC HPR/KW rig & soon to be two digital consoles (most likely X32s since I cant afford 2 LS9s) for IEM & FOH. UPS on each console. I hated the thought of adding the weight of 12/3 SO to the dual cat5 snake lines ;) My band plays mostly churches so finding power at FOH isn't really a problem & I keep a 100' 10/3 for emergencies or outdoor gigs.

Thanks again for the help!
 
Re: FOH AC Power with Digital Snake - questions

Matt, If the LS9 and x32 were the same price I would go for the X32 hands down.
 
Re: FOH AC Power with Digital Snake - questions

Mark Dawson said:
Matt, If the LS9 and x32 were the same price I would go for the X32 hands down.
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Same...

The LS9 is a wretched console compared to anything on the market now a days.

If I never see one again it will be too soon. All the cons of the M7CL with a high price tag and very few "pro's". IMO.

It had its place when it was released, but that day has gone.
 
Mike Brown said:
Same...

The LS9 is a wretched console compared to anything on the market now a days.

If I never see one again it will be too soon. All the cons of the M7CL with a high price tag and very few "pro's". IMO.

It had its place when it was released, but that day has gone.
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What has the LS9 done to you personally to evoke this kind of hatred?

A wretched console? If you never see one again, it's too soon?

Are these really your 'professional' opinions on the subject? Can you expand on these statements at all?

I enjoy mixing on other products (SD9 specifically) more then the LS9, but when one is spec'd properly on a show, I never have any trouble getting quality work out of them.

Why all the LS9 hatred? Just curious... Never used to hear so much bashing prior to the X32 being released.

Interesting times...
 
Re: FOH AC Power with Digital Snake - questions

Steve Milner said:
What has the LS9 done to you personally to evoke this kind of hatred?

A wretched console? If you never see one again, it's too soon?

Are these really your 'professional' opinions on the subject? Can you expand on these statements at all?

I enjoy mixing on other products (SD9 specifically) more then the LS9, but when one is spec'd properly on a show, I never have any trouble getting quality work out of them.

Why all the LS9 hatred? Just curious... Never used to hear so much bashing prior to the X32 being released.

Interesting times...
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Sorry for the rant,

This is not a case of the workman blaming the tools for a lousy job. The job gets done and can sound great with the LS9...its that almost any other tool out there can make the job get done easier and faster for less money.

Even as someone who likes the M7CL, I have always hated the LS9 ever since its release. I would almost take a TT24 over it...... almost.

I run into them as mainly a BE/hired gun. I don't have any trouble making a mix happen on them but I would take almost any console (racks of analog or another digital board) over it.

My main complaint is that compared to almost all other consoles its slow to operate because of the parameter selection and editing with the jog wheel. There are a few others, but this is the main irritation.

Pre-2012 I saw a lot of people using a preprogrammed LS9 with a split for IEMs....

I don't particularly love the X32 either, but I can't name a gig where either a LS9 makes more sense than the cheaper studiolive/x32/whatever UNLESS you are dealing with BE's who have yamaha show files...... Even then they probably want a (readily & cheaply available) M7 at minimum and if it really was make or break they would be probably carrying a console anyway.

It's a product which has been completely obsoleted by other companies.

YMMV
 
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Re: FOH AC Power with Digital Snake - questions

Mike Brown said:
I don't particularly love the X32 either, but I can't name a gig where either a LS9 makes more sense than the cheaper studiolive/x32/whatever UNLESS you are dealing with BE's who have yamaha show files...... Even then they probably want a (readily & cheaply available) M7 at minimum and if it really was make or break they would be probably carrying a console anyway.

It's a product which has been completely obsoleted by other companies.

YMMV
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I'm sitting here right now behind an LS9-16 mixing for a statewide conference of episcopalian clergy and staff. I paid about $1000 more for it used than either of your aforementioned alternatives. The difference is I have no issues putting my reputation into any of my 4 Yamaha digital boards. I consider them purpose built and not value engineered.
 
Re: FOH AC Power with Digital Snake - questions

Like Tom I would never put my reputation behind anything with the behringer name plate. Yamaha has been making digital consoles for over a decade, and every major artist has been on a Yamaha digital at one point. You can't say that about behringer. If reputation is not important to you then save yourself the cash and buy behringer products. But to me reputation is more important then saving money on an inferior product.

If your going to buy it for your band that's playing crappy clubs then great, it's an excellent product for you. But don't go thinking if even compares to a product like an LS9. Owning a behringer digital console doesn't make you a "PRO", it just makes you another sucker with a Guitar Center credit card.
 
Re: FOH AC Power with Digital Snake - questions

Ruh roh.... I've said something unpopular! :lol:

Looks like I really hit a nerve.

Steve Milner said:
So, your big (holy shit this console sucks) item, is the jog-wheel!?

Didn't see that coming! 
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How would you like me to rank consoles? Sound quality? Durability? Ease of use? Features for $? etc etc etc

IMHO the LS9 doesn't win any of the usual categories.... I would rank it in the bottom third of most.

The LS9 is obviously usable for many situations, but it is not ideal for any. When it was released in 2007 it certainly had a better place in the market... but I am not sure why you would recommend buying it in 2013.

Tom Manchester said:
I'm sitting here right now behind an LS9-16 mixing for a statewide conference of episcopalian clergy and staff. I paid about $1000 more for it used than either of your aforementioned alternatives. The difference is I have no issues putting my reputation into any of my 4 Yamaha digital boards. I consider them purpose built and not value engineered.
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I have no issues using a yamaha console on a gig.... I am in front of M7s, PM1Ds, PM5Ds, DM2000s, O1v's all the time..... all I am saying is that in my opinion, as a BE not a gear provider, I would prefer to actually mix on almost any other consoles...... analog with some basic outboard gear or digital.


Cole Lofink said:
Like Tom I would never put my reputation behind anything with the behringer name plate. Yamaha has been making digital consoles for over a decade, and every major artist has been on a Yamaha digital at one point. You can't say that about behringer. If reputation is not important to you then save yourself the cash and buy behringer products. But to me reputation is more important then saving money on an inferior product.

If your going to buy it for your band that's playing crappy clubs then great, it's an excellent product for you. But don't go thinking if even compares to a product like an LS9. Owning a behringer digital console doesn't make you a "PRO", it just makes you another sucker with a Guitar Center credit card.
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Not sure where I was talking about how the behringer brand was better than yamaha?

I enjoy mixing on all the other yamaha consoles... please dont straw man my argument into throw out your PM5D for 2 X32's.

On the flip side though, how does a X32 "not compare" to a LS9? It certainly COMPARES. I would question any professional who does not look at all the options available to them. All other things being equal, as a professional audio person, it just happens that I would honestly rather mix a show on an StudioLive with iPad or an X32 than an LS9. I'm sorry if that offends you.


You guys are all entitled to your opinion as well. If I am missing the golden use of the LS9, where it clearly outshines the other consoles on the market please PM me. I'd be truly interested to know.

Sorry to derail the thread! :lol:
 
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Re: FOH AC Power with Digital Snake - questions

Matt Duncan said:
To those who are running some form of digital snake system (remote I/O boxes or 2 consoles with a digital connection between them), how are you getting power to FOH? Are you still pulling a power cable from the stage/distro or are you finding an outlet near FOH?

Am I correct in saying that with a cat5 or other digital connection, the potential for ground loops between the stage & FOH are totally eliminated?

Thanks!!
Click to expand...

You can still have ground loops with shielded data wiring, so the potential for ground loops is only eliminatd if you are running UTP Ethernet or fiber cable.
 
Re: FOH AC Power with Digital Snake - questions

Matt Duncan said:
No coms at my level or anything other than a couple MacBooks for control & recording.



Bennett, you pretty much hit it on the head.
Click to expand...

Now imagine this:

FOH power sourced locally, digital snake is unshielded cat5. No sweat.

Light controller/console is connected to mains power with all the other stuff at FOH. So now you have an earth connection between the local FOH power outlet and the gear on stage. And that earth connection ain't a power cord.

Catch my drift? :)
 
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